Nancy Pelosi: Wayward Genius

Many are familiar with an item from one of the closing documents of the Second Vatican Council which gave a shout out to the feminine genius. Having praised women for their tremendous gifts and skills, it prophetically noted that they would be called upon in this generation to save mankind from falling. It was a heavy thought written with the utmost confidence in the particular talents of the “fairer sex,” realizing that their fidelity to the call of God would be critical in the coming years. Sadly, many missed the memo.

This Economic Crisis Will Be Shared Suffering

Presently, the world has discovered an interconnectedness that it didn’t bank on. The market woes of the West are now so intermingled that few will avoid the fallout of the present economic death spiral. While the Holy Father has commented that it may be a call to material simplicity and detachment, the leader of the American House of Representatives has added a twist: It’s time to simplify our lives, and fewer children are the key to stabilizing the markets. Never mind that the West is already facing a failure to reproduce itself and that Japan has frantically signaled to its own citizens that more children are the only hope, children cost money that we don’t have. With this myopic logic, it is argued that if we don’t waste resources on kids, we will free up essential dollars to … evidently, spend elsewhere.

Drudge has kindly made available transcripts from a weekend show, where the “Catholic” grandmother of five introduces her unique “time out.”

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hundreds of millions of dollars to expand family planning services. How is that stimulus?

PELOSI: Well, the family planning services reduce cost. They reduce cost. The states are in terrible fiscal budget crises now and part of what we do for children’s health, education and some of those elements are to help the states meet their financial needs. One of those — one of the initiatives you mentioned, the contraception, will reduce costs to the states and to the federal government.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So no apologies for that?

PELOSI: No apologies. No. we have to deal with the consequences of the downturn in our economy.

Short-sightedly, she neglects to factor in the myriad problems we’ll face later, say in five or six years when these non-existing children would have started school. We’ll need fewer teachers, bus drivers and pediatricians. We’ll need fewer garment workers for the clothes, toy factories for the sundries, and food from the farmers. Then, lo, in about twenty years, the market will face a larger implosion when fewer people will exist to seek jobs. Ultimately, the elderly — who depend on subsequent generations to work responsibly and pay into the retirement funds (and even work at the nursing homes) — will suffer the inevitable neglect, leading to the dark possibility of moving them along prematurely to their Eternal Reward for lack of resources — human and financial.

In this view of the economy, the market takes priority over families — over the actual people for whom it exists. People, already conveniently reduced to consumers and even commodities themselves, are redefined as burdens — expense items marked for waste reduction. The added irony is the widely-touted presidential appeal to usher in “a new age of responsibility,” which shows all the signs of being a new age of absorption in “all me — right now!” with little care given to the future of the country.

The Hidden Power of Prayer and Witness

For those not called to interact in the public square, it may well be a time to stand down from the political fray and to remember our call to be leaven. It takes mere cursory glances at government policy to discern the troubling trends, to guide prayers, and to try to reassess the motives of those so obstinately at war with the Church.

Last week, while commemorating the tragic judicial fiat that equated “choice” with infanticide, the new president offered these troubling words:

nancy-pelosi.jpg“On this anniversary, we must also recommit ourselves more broadly to ensuring that our daughters have the same rights and opportunities as our sons: the chance to attain a world-class education; to have fulfilling careers in any industry; to be treated fairly and paid equally for their work; and to have no limits on their dreams. That is what I want for women everywhere.”

He promotes the fallacy that the lives of women must be identical to the lives of men (highlighting pregnancy as the key differentiating factor) as well as the shallow view that children have the unfortunate habit of ruining the lives of those to whom they are entrusted. It is degrading to think that dreams must prevail over children, but it is merely another way of stating Mrs. Pelosi’s view — that children will short-circuit the nation’s well-being.

In an age of real responsibility, men who honored women wouldn’t lead them into behavior that might lead to a “crisis,” and women who trusted women would remind them of options that bring out a creative response to unexpected blessings. It is for us to make the case that motherhood doesn’t destroy dreams — it enhances them, vivifies them, enriches them and fulfills them, in ways we cannot imagine.

We now face the prospect that all three branches of the American government are poised to wage war on the next generation. The courts have denied their personhood, the congress seems incapable of seeing even their practical worth, and the president has framed the discussion as a zero-sum choice: prosperity or children.

Those Closing Documents Were Correct

The response is entrusted to women — who will now make the case for motherhood, for sacrifice and for authentic responsibility. This truth can be spread person-to-person, in humble settings, using traditional methods of communications. The arrogant will be brought down in God’s time if we collaborate in spreading the good news. The lowly shall be lifted up, love will work its wonders and the simple joys of family life will find root.

The key is to speak out consistently with charity, fidelity and trust. In the words of Saint Pio, “Pray, hope, and don’t worry!” There may be darker times ahead, but Christ is ever with us, reminding us to keep our little lamps lit.

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  • Cheryl Dickow

    As a Michigan resident, a state bluer than one could imagine with a democratic governor, two democratic state senators, and a like-minded voter base, I am here to say that Pelosi — and the thinking of her party — is so wrong that it is alarming.

    Come to Michigan to see what happens when there is a smaller population. It began with a down-turn in the economy and then the highest home foreclosure rate in the nation. Soon people began leaving our beautiful state to head elsewhere. Now, we are spinning out of control and our roads and highways are lined with huge, empty buildings. Take a drive and see construction projects abandoned in mid-stream. Visit our under-staffed, over-worked health care facilities.

    To be vibrant, a country needs people! Come to Michigan to see that it doesn’t get better with a smaller population. IT GETS FAR WORSE.

    Cheryl Dickow
    Associate Editor, “Today’s Catholic Woman”

  • tednkate

    Hello again from Michigan!

    In our town, people were quite excited about the building bomb going on: more people, more kids for the schools (which they constantlhy complain about being overcrowded). Well, Cheryl is correct. They are strongly considering closing maybe up to four schools in our city.

    In yesterday’s paper, a local Catholic gentleman (I believe he is still in charge of catechisis on one of the parishes around here) praised the progressive tax rate and social programs. He said we need ’em and contrary to popular belief, they are not socialism.

    I wanted to scream. People are getting awfully tired of having to fork over for other people’s health care, schooling, food, etc. Our Democratic governor recently challendge the people in Michigan to try living on the amount maximum ($5.87 per person per day) allowed for Food Stamps. Well, I calculated up our bills for last year, and even with dining costs included, came in below $5.00 per day.

    I remember some years back, when it was proposed to not pay for “poor women’s” abortions here in Michigan (or was it to pay for them? I can’t remember that well.) I know I wanted the State to pay for them because it was cheaper to abort ’em then have ’em on welfare.

    Because of the bad economic news, there seems to be quite a bit of anomousity about upcoming proposed property tax increases and a new school mileage. Madame Pelosi’s words will gain a lot of traction with people who don’t think things through very, very carefully.

    Anyway, all of the countries that do have the types of progressive tax rates and social programs all have very tiny birthrates–Europe is dying. As is Japan. I believe the birthrates in South America are rapidly dropping as well. Once we get socialized medicine in, I suspect the elderly will start dying more quickly, as they are in Great Britain, because the State will not want to spend tax dollars on paying to keep them alive 5 more years.

    Michigan is a beautiful place to visit, but I am telling everyone to get out of town if they can.

  • tednkate

    Oops! That “building bomb” should be a “building boom” But a major employer has had some bad news recently, and I wonder how many of the half-built buildings will be finished, (as Cheryl Dickow noted above.)

  • tednkate,

    I just want to put in a word for social programs. Some people need them, myself included. I am on food stamps and Medicaid, and I get a housing subsidy. I’m probably the only person in the country on welfare who voted for John McCain. I did it because I believed he was best for the country, not because I was worrying about my wallet (which is usually empty).

    The point is, Jesus takes care of me, and He has chosen to take care of me through welfare. I don’t really like it but right now I have no choice. I do work part-time, as much as I am able, and I am VERY grateful for the community assistance I receive. I don’t take it for granted at all. Even with my Republican genes, I believe the larger community has some responsibility to people who can’t work full-time and make their own ends meet. I believe that is consistent with Catholic social teaching. So the Catholic gentleman you mentioned may not be far off.

    Please don’t paint with such a broad brush. Not everyone is in the same situation.

  • Mary Kochan

    I agree that the larger community has this responsiblity and I have had stretches of my life when I had to rely on government housing, food stamps and SS disabilty.

    We’ve gotten ourselves into a mess with taxes. We Christians should be caring for the poor and for our own needy, like Anthony. But we have turned a lot of the responsiblity for that over to the state. To say this comes at a great cost (and I don’t here mean monetary) is not the same thing as saying that those programs aren’t accomplishing a lot of good. It is very hard to untangle. Also there is the fact that once you have layers of bureaucracy in place, every tax dollar that goes to benefit someone who needs it has been shrunk to pennies.

  • fatherjo

    Wayward genius or clueless lady? You decide. Unfortunately, she thinks like a lot of other people in our contraceptive and sterile culture. At least she has the whatever-it-takes to voice her erroneous opinions and expose them to the light of truth.

  • ctporrell

    To begin, Pelosi leads the House not the Senate. As such, she is in line for the Presidency after another horrible representative of Catholic witness, Vice-President Biden. I understand that the world is much less black and white than I see it, but I wish our local church leaders would demonstrate consistency in teaching and promoting the faith. I know that Jesus does not want us to abandon a single sheep let alone a flock. At the same time, however, I understand Jesus to have forgiven but also said go and sin no more.

  • Mary,

    You’re absolutely right. I do feel that the Christian community should be doing more to take care of its own, and that includes li’l old me. And social programs do have a definite downside; I’ve seen it. I used to work at a homeless shelter and we had guys whom we called “the professionally homeless” who knew how to work the system to their own advantage. They didn’t want to give back to their community, they just wanted to take what they could. But God is their judge and not me.

    I think the solution rests in restoring the Church to more the way it was in the Apostolic days, when everyone brought what he had, whether it was spiritual goods, material goods, charisms, or what have you. Maybe that’s the direction God is taking us. It will require breaking down much of what we see around us. Perhaps that is happening before our eyes, I don’t know.

  • Mary Kochan

    Thanks ctporell! I should have caught that — it is fixed now.

  • pgohn

    JPII taught that the opposite of love is “use”. The call to love others must prevail in all circumstances, so we do not “use” them, reducing their personhood to a thing or commodity, as suggested by this article.

    We’ve seen how this applies in all the relational “life” and “love” issues: contraception, abortion, care of the ill/disabled/elderly/dying, bioethics, sex, marriage, parenting, etc.

    As I listen to Speaker Pelosi’s views, as she often identifies herself as a “devout” Catholic, I wonder if we can apply the love/use standard to her relationship with the Christ and His Bride, the Church? Does she LOVE being Catholic Christian, or is she just using it?

    I do not just ask that of the Speaker, I ask the questions of myself.

    And in the meantime, JPII’s language of love vs. use helps me to understand what is at stake.

  • gk

    The root of many of our troubles is contraception. Yet I know popular and political thinking feels that contraception is necessary. In fact popular opinion would hold that contraception will save us.

    Pray. Fast. Love.

  • Martin

    I can’t believe mainstream media (MSM) has given her a free pass on this one!!! It’s a terrible testimony on our society.

    Pelosi considers children items not people — the pro-abortion argument has crossed from a moral discussion to an economic one. As the author points out, what happens down the road? It is not a far reach to euthanasia to balance the ledger sheet.

    I think Pelosi managed to advocate each of the seven deadly sins in one breath!

  • tednkate


    I agree, there is a time and place for welfare or “social programs”. St. Paul has something to say about this. I don’t think you should take personally what I wrote, as you have noted that social programs have a down side to them–people take advantage of the system. You are correct that God is their judge, and not you, but why am I (and you as well) forced to pay for their bad behavior? Why are we forced to subsidized these people? This is largely possible because the “accountability” is so far away, often lost in the Halls of Bureaucracy.

    Government funded welfare programs are loaded with waste, fraud, “people using the system” and the like. The Government is the only entity that we allow to use force (aka violence) to take our money, our property, ensure our good behavior, and increasingly say the right things, or at least not say the wrong things (“God creasted Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” could be considered “hate speech”). I would argue that ultimately, government welfare does more harm than the good that comes out of it. Freedom is slowly going out the door.

    Now, my pastor has to be pretty choosy about whom he gives “welfare”, because if it goes to people using the system and the parishoners find out, funds will be cut off at some point. (There was outrage when he got satellite televsion…oddly enough, though, not from me, and so far as I know, my family was the only one without cable or dish, etc.)

    Of course, my pastor has few dollars to work with. We are a tiny parish and financially strapped. If I don’t pay my tithe, there is nothing he can do about it (ultimately, our parish may close due to bankruptcy.) If I fail to pay my taxes, however, I may go to jail, loose our house, etc. Obviously, taxes come before charity.

    Eventually, the people who pay taxes in the country are going to stop working, or even worse, get really, really mad. And when people get that mad, rational thinking goes out the door.

    It is my understanding that Mrs. Pelosi isn’t going to get the funding for family planning like she wanted. But, chances are excellent it is going to come back. Family planning is linked to a lot of the foreigh aide we give out. I see no reason why it won’t eventually be linked to domestic government welfare.

    Incidentally: the Catholic gentleman I wrote about is a promoter of government social programs and of President Obama’s.

  • elkabrikir

    Mrs Kineke wrote: “the president has framed the discussion as a zero-sum choice: prosperity or children.”

    He didn’t coin the phrase. The president only articulated what Americans have believed and practiced for years! During the greatest time of prosperity on earth, westerners have shrunk their families to below replacement levels and become even more selfish in the process.

    Everything from hotel rooms to compact cars are designed for the Ideal American Family of Four. Do you know how hard it is for a large family to interact logistically in the world? Extracurricular activities are designed for families with few children, as are the school districts. Do you know what it’s like to sign papers for 5 school aged children?

    Mr Obama only mirrors his country. Few embrace seeing themselves as they are. Obama and Pelosi are the “American Word made flesh”.

    As an aside,
    My own parents had 3 children. (the 3rd an “oops”! and then the vasectomy.) They’re divorced. My husband’s parents had 2 kids and then the IUD. Now my in laws cruise throughout the year, unburdened by children and uncaring, except when it gives them the warm fuzzies to interact with any of us. All the grandparents see my husband and me “sacrificing” our wealth, bodies, and free time. I hope our witness sanctifies them.

    Finally, children may seem a burden in the material world on the personal level (eg my parents/in-laws view) However, note Mrs Kineke’s valid points regarding the macro economic positives/negatives of childbearing. My husband and I will be well over 60 before our 11th child is an adult! By then, I hope I’m blessed with grandkids to nurture and love too. We won’t have a dime saved for cruises, and , God willing, our outlook will continue to be what it has always been: Imitating Christ in Loving Service to Others. For, his burden is light. Through my children, God has given me more than I could ever have asked for. They are the glimmering pearls strung around my soul.

    I pray God shows mercy on Pelosi as he did on me, through my children.

  • elkabrikir

    to tednkate,

    I just read your 2nd post. regarding your comment “Eventually, the people who pay taxes in the country are going to stop working,” That has already happened across the board in England. Generations of families know that getting married costs money, so they don’t. Many collect gov’t handouts without ever intending to get a job. It’s a legitimate concern.

    You wrote, ” And when people get that mad, rational thinking goes out the door.” I’ve been saying for awhile that violence will erupt over this taxation without representation issue, misuse of taxes, and overtaxation. I don’t know how it will erupt, or what form it will take, but there are enough folks left who aren’t on the dole…..and they will rebel.

    Watch out Govco, real Americans still exist. (And in case this site is being monitored by Govco henchmen/ US KGB, I eschew violence, personally.)

  • bambushka

    Pretty is as pretty does. It takes a genius to recognize a genius. and a genius she ain’t. I wonder how many of her grandchildren have gone the way of the knife. It is a shame that the economy triumphs the need for children.

    My husband and I have never been on welfare, just unemployment one season, and this was something we had paid into as small business owners. We have been done to our last biscuit, with many children to feed. This just increased our creativity and some point in time, the family sold Krispy Kreme donuts door to door on Saturday mornings to make ends meet. Our children are not ashamed of this fact, in fact, they see it as a fond memory. My husband has worked full time and taken in work on the side in our garage in order to send our children to Catholic schools. And now that we are older, we are again self-employed, trying against all odds to save for our future. But this is an impossible task as health insurance premiums, taxes, and high utility costs eat up all but the bare essentials. If someone had told me 20 years ago that we would bring in a six figure income and still not have enough to make it through the month, I would have laughed. We do know how to be frugal, we are frugal. But the only riches we have is our Faith, our Church, and our God. We will continue to work and pay taxes until we can no longer work. Retirement is not in the picture. But there is a deeping frustration concerning just how much attention needs to be given to our future with no hope of ever getting ahead.

    And yes we do live in Michigan also, but work globally.

  • dennisofraleigh

    I knew when the American voters handed the keys to the asylum over to the inmates it was going to result in some very strange goings on, to say the least. Enter Nancy LaLoca, Prattler of the House. Fewer children = more prosperity? Would someone on her staff please explain that to the bean counters in the government offices of Sweden, Japan and Russia? *Their* governments are paying bounties, BOUNTIES for women of childbearing age to have babies. But why? Because they have come to the all-too-late realization that a nation of otherwise industrious people cannot contracept itself into an economically stable society. Other nations like Spain, Canada and Italy are also peering over the cliff into the same dark, forbidding canyon.

    But it takes a sane and rational person to connect the dots. I’ve become more and more convinced that “contraception” is more than just preventing the procreation of other human beings. It’s also a state of mind—a mental state that seriously detaches one’s capacity to reason from reality. It literally takes over the reasoning functions of frontal lobe of the brain and consequently every plan, program, action or idea is filtered through this neural network of “all contraception–all the time.” Sadly, this condition is not limited to elected officials. Many of our Catholic parishes are populated by men and women who wander in the same delusional contraceptive fog (and don’t even realize it).

    But as Mrs.Kineke states at the conclusion of her article, quoting St. Pio, we pray, hope, and not let worry (or defeatism) cause us to give up the fight. Never mind that our nation’s leadership (and much of the rest of the country) believes drilling more holes in the sinking Titanic to let the water out is the answer to our current dilemma. They don’t realize the lifeboats have stenciled in big, white block letters on their sides “Gospel of Life.”

  • bambushka

    Dennisofraleigh said:
    “I’ve become more and more convinced that “contraception” is more than just preventing the procreation of other human beings. It’s also a state of mind—a mental state that seriously detaches one’s capacity to reason from reality.”

    This, I believe, is also why so many Catholics are dubious about the Real Presence in the Eucharist. They have scales on their eyes that cloud the Truth from being known to them.

  • Daughter of the King

    If you think you have it bad try living north of your border in Canada. We’ve lived in both countries, paid taxes in both countries and I can tell you you have it good. My husband and I were able to pay off heavy student loans and vehicle loans, etc. while living in the US. In Canada it took only six years from being debt free when we came here to be so heavy in debt from paying so much in taxes that we’re tempted to return to the States to regain some financial stability. The taxes and health insurance in the US is nothing compared to what is ‘forced’ out of the taxpayers in Canada.

  • yblegen

    I agree with dennisofraleigh. When the American voters handed over the keys of the asylum to the inmates it is no wonder that you have one of the inmates wondering (from news show to print media)babbling ideas that seem inane to sane person. What is horrifying to me is that Pelosi is actually taken seriously and she has the power to prove it.

    Am I having a nightmare?

  • Above all things, let the peace of God reign in your hearts.

    Seek personal conversion, before trying to change the world.

    The Republic may well be disintegrating, but all has been foreseen, and “all things work together for the good of those who love Him.”

    Trust the Church, and Be Not Afraid.

  • tednkate

    Daugheter of the King: I have relatives in Canada. Every once in awhile I get the blow by blow news accounts. I realize we are in better shape than most out there, but as was pointed out above, our new President and the House just voted to saddle us with an additional $3,333 in taxes. I think it will be more in the long wrong once cap’n’trade and socialized medicine gets in, which they probably will. We are getting to where you are rather quickly. And once we are there, getting ourselves out will not be easy. It may not be possible.

  • Wiregrass Catholic Mom

    We have 7 living children and 4 in Heaven with the Lord. Pelosi and her ilk just make me want to have one more. Too old, though. LOL So I hope that when my children marry they will remember that the best things in their childhoods were their siblings and that, if God allows, they will be generous in childbearing.

    Anthony, I think you and Ms. Kineke are right on the money. These problems are not solved through political action. Surely the Saviour’s life teaches us that. He did not come to conquer the world, He sent His disciples to convert the world. He died that we would know, love and serve a Love so overwhelmingly wondrous that we cannot contain its peace and joy within our own hearts — we are compelled share it with others. Even, or maybe especially, when the circumstances of our lives are not what we modern Americans like to consider “ideal.”

  • elkabrikir


    Amen. Jesus is the only way. Peace can only be achieved by following your advise. Yes, we do need to work to redeem the world for Christ. Your plan is it.

    Repent now! The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    ……not that I’m going to sit back and watch the US crumble. I’ll work hard according to my station in life however….well, reread prairiehawk.

  • blue8064

    Tednkate says: “Social programs have a down side to them–people take advantage of the system…but why am I (and you as well) forced to pay for their bad behavior? Why are we forced to subsidized these people? …Government funded welfare programs are loaded with waste, fraud, ‘people using the system’ and the like.”

    What about the tax dollars we spend on jail sentences for convicted murderers who have been sentenced to life in prison? Surely, cold-blooded murder is much worse behavior than the behavior that tednkate is complaining about. If we are going to provide welfare (which any jail sentence amounts to, considering that the jailed criminal needs to be fed and otherwise provided for at taxpayer expense) to convicted murderers, who are guilty of just about the worst behavior possible, how can we deny welfare to anyone else for reasons of behavior?

    Also, keep in mind that if jail sentences are the only type of welfare available, people who need welfare, or think they do, might start committing crimes in order to take advantage of that. In other words, if we simply stop subsidizing the behavior that tednkate is complaining about, their response might be to commit crimes and let the taxpayers pay for the resulting jail sentence. There are no limits to this type of welfare; the person can keep committing additional crimes as needed to continue getting this type of welfare.

  • blue8064

    Elkabrikir says: Many collect government handouts without ever intending to get a job.

    I cannot see how that could be serious enough to justify capital punishment. Practically speaking, the deliberate denial of the necessities of life to someone, such as denying food to those who refuse to work, is a form of capital punishment. Laziness may be wrong, but it cannot possibly be serious enough to warrant capital punishment.

    Also, as in the previous comment, if we simply stop providing the handouts, their response might be to commit crimes and let the taxpayers pay for the resulting jail sentence.

    Finally, especially during an economic downturn like now, the presumption ought to be that unemployment is NOT the fault of the individual. In other words, the burden of proof ought to be on the side of showing that unemployment is the fault of the individual, if that is the case. Assuming that unemployment is the fault of the individual even in a recession simply MUST STOP.

  • elkabrikir


    My your rhetoric! I stated a fact that is substantiated by the welfare rolls in England.

    The Catholic Church teaches that work is redemptive.

    CCC 2401 and on teachings on the 7th Commandment “thou shall not steal”.

    I’m not judging whether or not people are sinning by receiving welfare over generations, however, I think “original sin” can influence one’s rectitude of intention regarding whether you need a helping hand or are getting a hand out. Working is good for a man’s soul.

    Blue: we’re talking about systematic socialism here, NOT, helping people who are in a temporary, maybe several years, crisis.

    Proverbs says: If you won’t work you won’t eat.
    From the New Testament: If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10

    You say, “Laziness may be wrong, but it cannot possibly be serious enough to warrant capital punishment.” dying of cold because you refused to chop wood, or dying from hunger because you refused to plant and harvest (remember the story of the little red hen who planted the corn, harvested it, milled it, ate it? Nobody helped her and nobody else ate.) There’s a reason for that children’s tale.

    Your false sense of charity actually hurts people and leads them into servitude and others into unbridled power. Institutionalized welfare can become a sin against Justice. And, in my opinion the African American community, the Native American community, and the Hispanic community have been damaged by the so-called War on Poverty. The cycle has not been broken. See the results and look for a better way.

  • elkabrikir

    I forgot to finish my thought on this paragraph

    dying of cold because you refused to chop wood, or dying from hunger because you refused to plant and harvest ………dying used to be a natural consequence of laziness.

    If you don’t study and I do, and you earn and “F” and I receive an “A”, should we just even it out and both get “C”?

    People learn quickly enough, if you won’t work, you won’t eat…works with my kids

  • wgsullivan

    I realize this will not reach most for being so late but here is a bit of information. Dr. Janet Smith has a great talk called, Hormones “R” Us. It could be a great tool in informing the public about the dangers of contraceptives. Lotsa research and stats.