by Jody Brown
It's a question that parents have asked themselves since time immemorial: “Should I just give my kids what they want — or should I say 'No' so they understand that hard work is sometimes necessary in order to have those things?” Where do you draw the line?
Author Ellie Kay will be the first to admit she doesn't have the perfect answer. Even with a book subtitled Teaching Kids the Value of a Buck among her works, “America's Family Financial Expert” — Mrs. Kay's trademarked title — doesn't claim to be the authority on doing that. But like any Christian mom, she knows what works with her kids when it comes to learning how to appreciate God's blessings and developing a good work ethic.
In an exclusive interview with AgapePress, the author and speaker shared her thoughts on teaching children to give back to God a tenth of His blessings, to share from the bounty of those blessings, to save money — and to willingly (!) do chores.
AP: How did your parents model to you or train you in such things as tithing, saving, and generosity?
Ellie Kay: I remember my parents tithing faithfully. They didn’t make a big deal of it. They never even trained me that you needed to tithe — I learned that in Sunday school rather than learning that from my parents.
But yes, my parents modeled it for me. They supported a few ministries here and there, and they definitely tithed to the church every week. I wouldn’t say so much that they purposefully trained me in it, but as we all know as parents that with children, it’s “caught” more than it’s “taught.” So I certainly caught it. I know that they did it, even though they were kind of quiet about it.
And I also knew that my mom promised God that if she got this particular job teaching Spanish at the local community adult education school, then she would give Him 50 percent of her salary — and she did that. So she taught English at Rosemont Community School to adults for about five years — and during that entire time, she tithed 50 percent. She kept her word in that.
Now the modeling for generosity came more from my great-grandma. She was on a really fixed income, and yet she was always so generous. You’d know that she didn’t have a whole lot, but what she had she was very open with. She was generous with her own family, with people in the community, and even with strangers. So she was probably my role model for generosity — the “share” element [of my writing].
AP: So how about the tithing with your children? Do you and your husband require them to tithe, or do you just expect them to “catch” it?
Ellie Kay: No, we’re different with our kids. As I said, that was the way that I was raised, and maybe it was part of that generation [in the 1970s], I’m not sure. But we definitely have trained our kids according to the scripture in Malachi that talks about the “Lord’s tithe” and “your offerings.” And we’ve trained them that this is the Lord’s tithe — it’s not ours, it doesn’t belong to us.
We’ve given them examples in scripture about how when God’s people failed in the tithe, how judgment came after that and there were consequences for not paying the Lord His tithe. And so even from a young age, they’ve kind of got that in their minds that this is God’s money — and to keep it is to steal from Him. So if it’s God’s, they want to give it to Him.
Now we’ve talked [with our children] about the tithe, and that infers 10 percent in the original language — but we’ve given them the freedom to give whatever they want. They have to give the Lord His tithe, but we don’t say, “Okay, you have to give 10 percent. Let’s find your allowance [and say] this 10 percent has to go to the Lord’s tithe and you give that.”
We want them to say, “Here is my money” — and we can help them figure out the 10 percent when they’re younger and they can’t figure it out — but we want them to take their own money and say, “I am giving this to the Lord.” And they have a little bit of that ownership and that freedom because they know Momma and Daddy aren’t going to force them to give 10 percent.
We expect them to give money to God as part of their tithe, but we’re not forcing them to give their 10 percent. Consequently, they all give 10 percent — and then frequently, they’ll give above and beyond that in an offering if something special comes up. You know, if they’re saving money for a missionary, or something like that which might come up.
AP: Do you feel that if you're “forcing” them to give a tithe, it kind of does away with the “cheerful giver” aspect?
Ellie Kay: Well, it does — but if that’s all they remember from the tithe, that’s a negative thing. We want tithing to be a “willing” thing, a “joyful” thing. It’s “I get to do this, and I can do this — and I choose to do this.” So if they’re choosing to do that while they’re under our roof and under our authority, then hopefully they’re going to continue to choose to do it when they’re 18 and when they’re on their own and have their own money.
On Saving
AP: That, of course, assumes they have been able to save something along the way. What about the “saving” part of training your children in handling money?
Ellie Kay: When it comes to saving, we do the same thing [as tithing]. We encourage them to save 10 to 20 percent of their income. Even when they’re little [pre-schoolers], they learn to save in a piggy bank. As they get older, say by the time they’re 7, they have their own “Looney Tunes” account or some kind of a child-friendly account at a local savings institution, whether it’s a credit union or bank or whatever.
And then by the time they’re about 13, they have their mutual fund. We have contract labor with them for the mutual fund. [Editor's Note: Mrs. Kay's concept of “contract labor” is explained in the “Household Chores” portion of this article.]
For example, our oldest owes us $50 a month in babysitting for contract labor — and that $50 a month goes directly into his mutual fund. So he never, ever sees it. And with our other four children [at home], we’ll have different contracts with them. For example, as the oldest then goes out and starts becoming a “barista” at Starbucks — which is my personal dream for him while he’s still in high school so I could go visit him — then his younger brother can take over the babysitting contract. And we could have yard work contracts and all kinds of various services — even cleaning the house is a service contract. But they never see that money; it goes directly into their mutual fund.
And then by the time they’re 16, they have their own checkbook that they can balance and manage. And now, even though it doesn't really have to do with savings, we’re in the stages of getting a pre-paid credit card. But the point is that that $300 has been saved up, then we put that into a pre-paid credit card, and then [purchases] come directly out of that account. So it’s almost like a savings account, but they get the feel and the freedom — and the temptation — of dealing with plastic.
AP: Can you provide an example of how you teach your kids to be good stewards of the money they've saved?
Ellie Kay: It’s amazing. We’ve given our kids a budget, for example, for clothing, and we’ll give them a certain amount. Then we take them to the store and we go to the clearance rack and we tell them: “Look, you can have this particular shirt — or you can have this one over here that’s very similar, but it’s 70% off — and it’s your money. You keep what you don’t spend, whatever you come in under budget.”
So that’s been a real effective tool to where the kids aren’t embarrassed to find a bargain. I mean, they see first-hand how it benefits them financially — and they’re pretty much all for it.
AP: Have you always been a “saver”? Was there a period or something that happened earlier in your life that made you realize you needed to learn how to mange your money better?
Ellie Kay: I believe that we’re either born spenders or born savers, basically — and when I was born, I was due in late January; but I was born on December 28. So I was born in time to get my dad an extra income-tax deduction. So they insist that I came out of the womb saving money.
And ever since I was little, I would just always save my money. By the time I was 12 years old, I saved enough money to pay for a full trip over to Spain, where my mother was born. I took three rolls of film with me, and I came back with two-and-a-half rolls of [unexposed] film — so I “saved” two-and-a-half rolls of film.
I think that’s when my parents realized that they had a problem on their hands. They had this compulsive little saver. But by the time I was 15 — before I could even drive — I paid cash for my first car. I paid for my own insurance and started paying for my own clothing and my meals at school.
AP: Did you parents make you pay for those things?
Ellie Kay: They let me pay for it. They just kind of sat back, thinking “If Ellie has the money, why not just let her pay for it?” They never said, “Either you pay for this, or you won’t get it at all.” It was just almost like an understanding that if I had the money, then I was going to spend it on things like that that were necessities.
Now with our own children, I believe the way I was raised was maybe a little bit off to one extreme. I don’t want my kids to feel compelled to work their way through high school — I had to do that. And I also feel that if they’re getting good grades, that’s their job so they can get scholarships and earn money towards college. We’ve modified things a little bit differently than when I grew up.
AP: Do you think parents should foot the bill for their kids to go to college?
Ellie Kay: We believe our kids ought to own the majority of their own education — and then they study better, they get the grades, they work hard, and they have ownership of it. We feel that’s important.
Our oldest [child] went to Columbia — she went on scholarship and she worked, and it was a hard four years for her, but she did it and she’s got a wonderful work ethic and minimal debt because she worked hard for that. And then our second [child] is in college [now] and we help her a little bit every month; she’s going to a state college and she qualifies for state tuition, so that helps her a lot.
And then our four boys [all still at home] have all decided they want to follow in their father’s ‘boot-steps’ and go to military academies, which of course is free education. And if they don’t get accepted into a military academy — which is very hard; only about the top 5% get in — they would maybe like to go into ROTC or something like that.
Once again, they’re already thinking [about college finances] at this young age, even when they’re in high school and junior high — because they understand that they’re going to either get scholarships or work for part of their education, and we’re going to help them some. We do believe in helping our children, but we also believe in letting them own part of it.
I think it’s particularly a challenge for parents who are in a financial position to be able to go ahead and cover their children’s education and give them a full ride; that’s when it really gets hard.
It’s one thing when you have limited options; it’s another thing when you want to teach them to own part of their own education and you have the means to go ahead and pay for them to go to college. I think that, in some ways, is a harder choice because you have a legitimate choice — you really can pay for it or you cannot pay for it, or you can strike a middle ground, which is kind of what we try to do.
On Sharing
AP: Why are you so passionate about not saving to hoard, but so you can be able to share?
Ellie Kay: When I was seven years old, I came to know Jesus in a real way. And I believe that when we come to know Jesus personally and the Holy Spirit comes and lives in our heart, then at that point He gives us spiritual gifts.
I believe that the Lord gave me the gift of giving, even as a seven-year-old, because from that point, from that year, I heard about a European missions organization. I signed a pledge and committed to sending them a dollar a month. And I sent that dollar a month, every single month, and put it in an envelope and mailed it off and they sent me out a receipt.
Looking back on it now, they probably spent more money in paperwork than maybe what my dollar actually contributed — but to a seven-year-old, that was a lot of money. And I have receipts from that for five years at least, until I started tithing to my local church. So I have always had the giving spirit because the Holy Spirit put that in me — so that’s a real passion for me because that’s the way God created me to be.
But I also believe in sharing that with other people and encouraging and stirring up generosity in others. I believe that as we are extravagantly generous, then that stirs it up in other people.
If you look at current statistics, you see that the most generous group of people are the middle class — it’s not the ultra-rich, but it’s the middle class who knows what it’s like to have struggled financially, who knows what it’s like to have someone else help you by giving you something and blessing you in that way.
I think the most gratifying thing for me has been to be able to stir up this generosity in other people through my seminars and through my books. I hear from readers who say, “You know? I’m a couponer, and I got 12 bottles of shampoo for free — but it never even occurred to me to give those bottles to a crisis women’s center or to a homeless shelter or to a halfway house or even to the family down the street that’s out of work or to the church food pantry.”
I mean, it had never occurred to them to give this stuff away. So what may be natural to me, I have discovered is not necessarily natural to other people. It doesn’t make them bad people, it’s just something that people — Christians included — have never really thought of.
I’m thankful that people are learning how good it feels to be generous. It just feels wonderful to be a steward of God’s resources that He has given you to where you are in a position now to help other people.
Right now, we are in the process of selling this house [in New Mexico] and buying another house in California, so we’re actually carrying two full mortgages for two very large homes. Consequently — and here I am, trademarked as “America’s Family Financial Expert” — we’re facing a season right now where things are going to be really tight financially. We’re going to have to really tighten our belts; and it’s not because of poor stewardship, it’s just because of the situation that we find ourselves in right now.
When I think this situation through, there’s always the challenge — even for someone who’s walked with the Lord for a long time. When Bob and I first got married, we had $40,000 worth of consumer debt; we had to save our pennies to go out and buy frozen yogurt and we couldn’t afford the sprinkles on top; and we actually had times when God provided groceries for us from somebody else. And Bob was an officer in the Air Force, so it was a real humbling time for us. So we’ve kind of been there and done that.
It’s not like we’ve always been very well-off financially, but God has been faithful, and financially we’re in a good position — and yet now here we are kind of going back again into another season where it’s going to be a little bit more difficult.
And as I struggle to go ahead and just put it in the Lord’s hands and trust Him with it, I know that He’s going to provide. But the thing that bothers me the most is being in a position where I'm either very limited or totally unable to give freely.
You see, that’s what I’d love now. I’d love to be able to bless a ministry. But when you’re financially strained, you have less freedom to do that.
In my books, I try to bring families to a point where they’re not spending extra income or unanticipated savings on groceries or on clothing. I try to show them to get to the point where they can share with others — and then experience the joy that’s available in doing that.
AP: So how can a parent model “sharing” to their kids? Any practical examples?
Ellie Kay: Here's a great example. Our oldest son purchased that truck in front of our house from my husband. He probably paid [his dad] about 25 to 33 percent of the value of the truck — because in our family, another thing that we do is sell our vehicles or we give them away as they get older so that we can be a blessing to other people. So if we can be a blessing to the homeless shelter by giving them our Suburban, then we could certainly be a blessing to our children by giving them a vehicle at a reduced rate. But the point is, our son still paid a significant portion of that truck.
Now here’s our agreement with him. We will pay for his insurance — because he’s a youthful driver, high-risk; pretty expensive — until the day that he gets a ticket or gets involved in an accident, because either one of those things is going to make your insurance go up. We told him: “Even if you’re not at fault but you’re involved in an accident, it will still be on your record and you’ll end up paying for it — unless you have very specific proof and get it actually removed from the record. Even if the other person pays for it, it’s a big hassle to get it removed and you pay more for that.” So that teaches him to drive more defensively — because if someone else causes the accident, you can always drive defensively.
So he was trying to grasp this concept and he asked: “What if the ticket isn’t my fault?” To which we responded: “It doesn’t matter — you get a ticket, you’re still going to pay for the ticket, and you’re going to start paying for your insurance every month.”
He then asked: “So I get one ticket and then I have to pay for my own insurance for the rest of my life?”
I said, “Wait a second! What do you think? You think you’re going to be a 35-year-old man with a family of your own, and just because you’ve never gotten a ticket or involved in an accident, your Momma is still paying your insurance? Is that what you think?”
You know, of course, in his mind he’s being real literal.
AP: Any advice on getting kids to do chores around the house?
Ellie Kay: Oh, chores are just a part of life. The children are members of our family and we all have certain responsibilities, and chores are part of them. But we also believe that it’s important for our kids because learning how to do chores — and doing them well and with the right attitude — is all foundational for a good work ethic. And if we don’t give our kids a good work ethic these days, then they’re not going to have the advantage in life that they could have if they had a good work ethic.
Let me give you an example. We have trained our kids to do what we ask them when we ask them. That’s the basic idea. So I will say, “Hey, Philip, I need you to fold a load of laundry.” And if Philip’s response is “[sigh] I just folded one yesterday!” I say, “Okay, Philip, you get to fold two loads of laundry.” And then they be quiet and wish they would just have said, “Yes, Momma” in the first place so they’d get by with just one load of laundry.
So that’s kind of the way that we do it — each family is different, and you’re going to come up with an idea that works best for your family. But that trains them with the right attitude that you’re going to have to do the work. Work is part of life — and work isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
AP: Earlier you mentioned “contract labor.” How do you discern between “contract labor” and regular chores?
Regular chores are just the basic part of life — it’s what keeps our family going. And it’s also anything we ask them to do. But we want to be fair with our kids. If we have the means to pay someone to clean our house or pay someone to do our lawn — or pay someone to baby-sit our children — why then shouldn’t we be putting that money into our own children? You know, why shouldn’t we hire them and train them how to do it well — and in the process, get them a good work ethic? That’s kind of our philosophy.
So the specific things that I mentioned, those are examples of “contract” type of labor; something that you would pay somebody else to do anyway.
Now the regular chores around the house are things like keeping your room neat and doing the dishes and folding laundry and making beds and taking out the trash — all of these just normal day-in, day-out things are chores that we just ask them to do.
And sometimes, like today when we have kind of a workday that we might need to get some things done, we just start assigning chores — and it’s just part of their life. And they accept it, and they do it. Now they don’t always do it cheerfully, but then they get double the work — so that’s kind of good for me, because then I have less work because they’re doing more work.
(This article courtesy of Agape Press.)