What America Has Done

I have been wounded in my heart by the election results to a degree that truly amazes me.  There is the kind of pain in my heart that comes from a deep sense of betrayal.  I know that a majority of my fellow Americans have never been, and are not now, anywhere near believing in the unlimited abortion license vocally supported by the president-elect during his campaign. I know that Barack Obama won the votes of Catholics who are not at all in favor of his abortion policies and that he won in spite of those policies, not because of them.  Still the feeling that my heart has been pierced by betrayal has been acute.

It isn’t just the work, the hours, the energy and words expended. It is that I long with all my heart for my country’s promise to respect the inalienable right to life of all human beings to come true.  Anything that pushes the hope of seeing that further away, hurts.

My daughter, a Marine, called me on Thursday echoing the deep sense of disappointment I felt.  And that got me to thinking about this in another way.  You see, my daughter is of mixed race, like Barack Obama.  Obama has identified himself as a black American and black Americans, have embraced him as one of their own. My daughter, however, is a very strong social conservative (go figure) and was a supporter of McCain.  Perhaps more pertinent, though, than her politics is her life experience.  She has never suffered on account of being “black;” no doors that she knows of have ever been slammed in her face on account of her race.  With a winning personality, fully accepted, and always popular with her peers of all colors, her experiences with “white America” have been positive.  Neither of her own parents have ever shared “war stories” about racism with her — we really didn’t have any.  And “civil rights,” when it enters our family discourse, has always been about the unborn, never about the struggle for racial equality.  In short, her heart is not wounded by racism.

But let’s face it.  That is simply not the case for millions of our brothers and sisters of color in this country.  For them, racism has been a fact of life, if not in personal experience, then in their family histories.  They have lived or are living an experience — or at least within a story — of betrayal.  They have longed and struggled for the day when, as Martin Luther King, Jr. put it, America would be “a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”  To them, the election of Barack Obama, self-identified as one of them, is a shining beacon of hope that they will see that dream of America fulfilled.  And putting other issues aside for the moment, the election of Barack Obama is historic in racial terms and positive when considered in that light.

So what do we, who fought so hard under the conviction that this election was crucial for the lives of the unborn, do now with the pain that we feel at losing, with this wound of betrayal in our hearts?  I think we need to take our experience of pain and use it to empathize in a profound way with those for whom this election was a moment of healing, a moment of triumph, a moment when the promise of America seemed etched in gold.  We need to empathize with those whose tears of gratitude streamed down their face that they lived to see the day that a black man was elected president.  That is not nothing.  It is, in fact, a great thing.

Subscribe to CE
(It's free)

Go to Catholic Exchange homepage

  • http://www.neuroticatlarge.blogspot.com kevnjosf

    I was thinking about Barack Obama’s victory… and a couple of thoughts came into my head… Like, ‘Hate the sin, not the sinner’… And there is St Paul… He personally undertook the persecution of christians in his time, till he got converted.

    Till he got converted.

    And that, really, is upto God. Obama’s opinions on abortion could change overnight. We need to pray for him. He has proved himself very very capable during the campaigning period… Just imagine all the good he can do if he becomes pro-life.

    We do our part, and God will do His.. In His Time…

  • Claire

    I have to admit that when I was watching the coverage the other night, I wasn’t so charitable when I saw Oprah and Jesse Jackson with the tears streaming down their faces. At that point all I could think about was the implications of this outcome for the unborn. (And, I have always been skeptical about Obama identifying himself as African American.) Thank you for providing another perspective. Surely God can somehow bring good out of this situation.

  • sinewave

    I can see your point of view and it does help me to empathize with those who are so jubilant with his victory. Though it seems that Obama was elected precisely FOR the color of his skin without regard to to the content of his character. I, too, feel deeply wounded, betrayed, and disappointed. I’m angered at the potential of losing everything that’s been gained in the pro-life movement, and I grieve for the women and children and families that will be harmed by unrestricted abortions. This is HUGE! And I don’t think most people realize the ramifications. I feel like someone very close to me has died and it is difficult to see and hear people rejoicing about this. It’s like they’re happy about the death of ‘my friend.’ I think I need to go to grief counseling. Father, forgive them, they know not what they’ve done!

  • Debbie

    My family and I have been grieving the loss as well. The thing I struggle more with is my fellow Catholic brothers and sisters who seem to over look the issue of abortion as part of the democratic platform. Our bishops did an icredible job of “informing” us so then our conciouses may be FORMED. I cannot understand how you can overlook the teachings of the Catholic Church!!! I find great solice though in knowing that God protects his faithful!! I pray that all of my Catholic brothers and sisters have the courage to face all of the aborted children in heaven and apologize for their vote!! Both sides need our prayers!!

  • marcey

    Betrayed? Without a doubt the betrayal is really hard to deal with. What hurts the most is the betrayal of fellow Catholics who did not care to see past the rhetoric of obama and voted their pocketbooks. God help us. There was great betrayal from 75% of the Hispanic Catholics who have been praised as bringing great things to the Catholic Church. If this is what they are bringing, this is not good.

    Historic? No way. Every person I know voted for the character of the man and obama has no moral character or compass. Who cares what color his skin is except him when he can play it to his advantage. Here is someone who lied about his promises to go along with campaign financing and let the democratic machine eat up Sarah Palin and Joe the plumber like nobody’s business. Historic? This is politics as usual.

    Oprah weeping? What a joke. “White” America hasn’t been good to her?

    God help us.

  • Mary Kochan

    When I was talking about people who were crying for joy, the last people I was thinking of were Oprah and Jackson. However, even of them, I am sure there were wounds when they were younger. Folks, racism is an intrinsic eveil also and it has had many victims. Oprah has overcome it in a very healthy way — by success. Not that I like her philosophy at all. Jackson has become a parody of himself. But in his younger days, he was a true victim of this evil. The people I was thinking about though, were ordinary Americans, especially older black people who have put up with, in their life times, some truly horrendous indignities.

  • http://catholichawk.com prairiehawk

    I was a McCain supporter too who was happy to vote for a man whom I saw as a war hero, a patriot, and a protector of the weak; besides having genuine integrity and a spirit of reform. Now that Obama has won, all I can say is that we must pray for this man whose soul may be in jeopardy and pray for America in a spirit of patriotism for our beloved homeland. We haven’t lost all grounds for hope; we don’t know yet what the demands of his office, the office God has bestowed upon him, will do to President Obama. Many popes, presidents, and kings have been changed by the weight of responsibility on their shoulders. Let us hope and pray that Obama will not be as radical as we all fear.

  • Dave

    Mary, I feel obligated to point out, as you well know, the complete moral decay of this man Obama. If an atheist or a homosexual or an axe murderer was elected and all the atheists or homosexuals or axe murderers cried would that then make you feel better? German commoners once cried and rejoiced during the rise of an unknown German private that went on to exterminate millions and bring a once great country to ruin. If the blacks needed a hero to make them feel better, this guy isn’t the one. The majority won, I count myself among the new minority… the soldiers of Christ who will not back down in the face of evil.

  • djcozzi

    Debbie said, “Our bishops did an icredible job of “informing” us so then our conciouses may be FORMED”

    They made a much better effort in this election, but I heard nothing about it from my parish’s priests. Not a single homily, announcement, or bulletin insert that communicated beyond just the talking points from the bishops’ guidance. The bishops are our teachers, but the priests are supposed to be passing down what they are teaching. I pray that our priests find the courage to teach what our Pope and our Bishops have been teaching instead of hiding in “excuses” or fear. I know there are many priests who do this, but in my area there are very few.

    What the church’s leaders and Catholic laypeople should learn from this election is that if we want our values reflected in our elections, then we should study how the Obama campaign used community organizing and the tenets of advocacy building. Organizing and distributing the churches teaching is not a political activity, but an evangelizing activity and it must be done during election periods where people are thinking about the issues we face, and our knowledge about community organizing can lead to both evangelization and faithful voting.

  • CherylDickow

    My grandfather came to the great land called “America” as a young boy of 5. His family believed that it was better to practice their Catholic faith and have all their children work in the coal mines of Pennsylvannia versus suffer religious persecution. They were convinced that “America” was the place to be.

    We have hand written stories of life in the coal mines for my grandfather, his brothers, and my great-grandfather. Their “home” with its dirt floors, was owned by the company. The store where they bought their food and clothes was owned by the company. The few cents my grandfather earned, as a kid of 5 and 6 and 7, he put in the middle of the table at the end of the week to help his family. I cannot read these stories without being sick to my stomach.

    A few things now come to mind and break my heart.

    Where is this great “America” now, just a few generations later? A president has just been elected who has decided it is better to kill babies than find ways for them to live and contribute to our country.

    We’ve just elected a president whose programs sound an awful lot like the coal mining company my great-grandfather and his children worked for in which nothing was theirs and everything belonged to the “company.” The company made sure no one would or could get ahead.

    My great-grandfather and grandfather and great-uncles still chose to love “America” and not cry at their horrible lives and misfortune. They forged ahead unlike anyone I have ever known to build lives in which future generations could build upon. They did not spend time telling stories of their mistreatment but simply recorded it once, for posterity’s sake, and instead, made sure that everyday we realized our good fortune for this magnificent land called “America,” the land of opportunity. They just didn’t look at it as the land that took from them but as the land that God allowed them to build up.

    I am glad that my grandfather, and his father before him, did not live to see what has happened to this great land built upon their backs and sacrifices.

  • MichelleGA

    I cannot empathize with tears that are based on skin color “victory” produced by clearly ignorant voting. These tears of joy will not last long. These tears of gratitude…they do not realize the ramifications of what they are so grateful for. I agree this is historic for the USA…we have not had an unknown radical elected by sheer ignorance based solely on the color of his skin before. To hell with his lack of morals, idiotic policies, radical left-wing ideas, lack of experience, commie-jew-hating associations…why those things don’t matter you whitey racists…the only thing that matters is his dark skin color and that produces tears of joy. Nope, I cannot empathize with this.

  • Jim McFillin

    I think it is now crucial for the Church (to include the Bishops and Parish Priests) to now verbally link the struggle for personhood from the blacks to the unborn. The unborn now deserve the right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

    The Church must now actively put front and center the issue of the unborn (not just write letters to the editor), and stop clumping it together with other issues, such as money for school books, immigration, health care, war in Iraq, etc., etc.

    1.3 million a year, 25 thousand a week, 3500 a day–get real!

    Moreover, these reasons noted above are never a “proportionate” reason to kill a child. It might occur to save the mother’s life, but never to pad the family financial’s position.

    Finally, the bishops and priests need to start putting the “who” into their discussions from the pulpit–the national politician, the local politician, even the parishioner themselves. Talking in generalities won’t cut it.

    Abortion needs to stop today. Forty-nine million deaths for thirty-five years going on thirty-six is an abomination. God is all merciful, but He is also all just. I am afraid for our country and for my family.

  • wgsullivan

    Ironic isn’t it. Some folks voting in defiance of racism by voting for a man because he’s black.
    Mother Mary, pray for us!
    DIVINE MERCY PRAYER for the conversion of our leaders and anyone else in need of conversion.

    +Today Jesus said to me,

    I desire that you know more profoundly the love that burns in My Heart for souls, and you will understand this when you meditate upon My Passion. Call upon My mercy on behalf of sinners; I desire their (93) salvation. When you say this prayer, with a contrite heart and with faith on behalf of some sinner, I will give him the grace of conversion. This is the prayer:

    “O Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a fount of Mercy for us, I trust in You.”

    From the Diary of Saint Maria Faustina, 186,187

    The Lord said to me, The loss of each soul plunges Me into mortal sadness. You always console Me when you (36) pray for sinners. The prayer most pleasing to Me is prayer for the conversion of sinners. Know, My daughter, that this prayer is always heard and answered.

    From the Diary of Saint Maria Faustina, 1397

  • http://catholicfamilyvignettes.wordpress.com kimberly@cfv

    I have to stand in agreement with Cheryl and Michelle…

    There is no evil, no suffering that can begin to encompass the potential carnage that will take place should Obama make good on his promise to sign FOCA. The color of his skin is immaterial in this historic “choice,” a “choice” that many have seemingly made based strictly on the color of a man’s skin. This is racism taken to a completely different level…one in which an entire “class of people” (the unborn) lose their voice, because their cries are superceded by the need to elevate another “class of people.” I can’t help but wonder if we would show the same empathy with the supporters of Hilary? Would we celebrate and empathize the historical significance should she have been elected, knowing that she was chosen only because she was a woman and knowing her position regarding abortion? I think not…

    My empathy remains with those who continue to shed tears for what has been lost…though my hope is great as God continues to separate “the sheep from the goats…”

    God bless you, Mary. I know your heart is good and that your intention is to find a place of common ground, to promote unity over division. But we can’t unite with one such as he nor with those who would sacrifice the unborn for racial validation. I can’t empathize with those who would rejoice over the election of a man who climbed over the bodies of the slaughtered innocent to claim the title of President. I don’t care what color he is. In God there is no male, no female, no free, no slave…

    I remain convinced that the prayers of God’s people have been heard. The Potter can use any piece of “clay” and will most certainly use this one to His greater glory. But He is not calling me to empathize with sin…and a vote for Obama, was, without question, a sin.

  • Mary Kochan

    A vote for Obama was only a sin for those who 1. voted for him because of his stand on abortion, 2. voted for him for some other evil purpose, 3. voted for him in spite of his stance on abortion while understanding that that was cooperation in intrinsic evil. While voting for him may have been unwise, I do not think that it can be argued that most of the people who voted for him sinned by doing so. For Catholics who knew, understood, and intentionally disregarded, the teaching of the Church, it was. But that is not the majority of voters — it may not even be the majority of Catholic voters.

    And I am not trying to find “common ground.” I am saying that for the US to have come this far in overcoming the evil of racism is objectively a good thing.

    Yes, I think tying in the civil rights struggle on race with abortion is a winning way to go, for a number of reasons, including that abortion disproportionately kills black Americans. But also it has a very clear legal connection. Roe v Wade is the Dred Scott decision of our time.

  • celothriel

    Mary, I love your articles, and deeply appreciate the efforts you have made to educate people about this election. I have to emphasize, though, the point you made about abortion and black Americans. The abortionists with whom Obama has aligned himself target the African-American community with particular vehemence. African-Americans make up about 12% of the population, but have about 35% of the abortions. I cried as I witnessed the jubilant crowds also, but with tears of sorrow that the prince of lies has so deceived people that they cheer for a man who is an accomplice in killing their own babies. Please see http://www.blackgenocide.org for more information.

  • DWC

    More details on voting research will come out in the weeks & months ahead .. but it is probably a safe assumption to think most “Obama Catholics” are in the block that do not attend weekly mass and consider faith one of the anchors in their life. As we all know, the 2nd largest “denomination” is lukewarm/fallen Catholics. Let’s not be so surprised by their actions. I must say, the one voting block that baffles me is the Jewish group.

    The page turns and we turn with it. The battle continues … just as the battle of good over evil continues to the last days.

  • kristinaterry

    We know that God can bring good out of evil. For me it is helpful to remember that while the Isrealites were in the desert, an place where nothing can grow, God sent down manna and give water out of rocks. As we head into a spiritual desert on a national scale, God will give us manna from heaven. I have no control over other peoples votes, I can do nothing now about the fact that Obama is our next president. I can pray that the Holy Spirit will guide his decisions.
    I didn’t vote for him, but I do believe that it is a positive that our country has emergered from its racist roots.

  • cbalducc

    Obama’s father was a member of the Luo tribe of Kenya. To identify him as 3/4 Arab is a mistake. God bless.

  • mom of 5

    I completely agree with your view, Mary. I have been actively involved for 25+years in the pro-life/pro-abortion wars and a part of me feels the same betrayal and sadness for our country that I felt after Bill Clinton’s elections. I also am extremely angry at the Republican party for failing to run a better campaign. As much as I admire John McCain as a person, neither he, nor Sarah Palin, ended up able to articulate a decent case why Americans should vote for them. Why did they not emphasize Obama’s stance on medical care for born-alive infants after abortion? His support for partial-birth abortion? The McCain campaign never emphasized his promise to pass FOCA at all. Instead, all they could do was tout expanding oil drilling in the Arctic. The whole “drill, baby drill” thing just about put me over the edge. Does the Republican leadership truly relish the label of “buffoons”?
    Another part of me, however, is extremely proud of our country and is rejoicing that maybe, just maybe, we can actually start to close the book on the unhappy saga of racism and discrimination. I agree that the majority of voters did not vote for Obama because of his “far-left” leaning policies, especially on the issue of abortion. They were looking for leadership and like it or not, McCain did not “appear” able to provide it, and Obama did “appear” able. I am praying fervently that he will go back on his primary campaign pledge to Planned Parenthood that the first thing he’ll focus on as President is the Freedom of Choice Act…I think all of us pro-lifers should be praying for his conversion to the truth about abortion. I cannot help but be happy though to hear the comments of many black Americans who are saying that they feel so much pride in America right now, that they feel so happy to be able to tell their children, “yes, you can be anything you want to be in the US if you work hard enough, even the President.” Whether I, as a person with white skin, believe that racism/discrimination actually died a generation ago or not, is irrelevant. What matters is whether or not those of black skin color believe it. The good Lord works in mysterious ways…let us pray that His will be done through this.

  • http://catholicfamilyvignettes.wordpress.com kimberly@cfv

    I think the USCCB position needs to be reviewed and understood in the light in which it was written. Abortion remains one of the five non-negotiables and every other “good” the voter may wish to accomplish pales in light of this reality. The Catholic voter who votes for a pro-choice candidate is guilty of either formal or material cooperation in an intrinsic evil.

    If a Catholic votes for a pro-choice candidate with then intention of supporting that position, they are formally cooperating with abortion and this is a mortal sin because the intent to legalize an intrinsic evil.

    If a Catholic votes for a pro-choice candidate not because they they are pro-choice but even for other seemingly noble reasons, they are still materially cooperating with abortion and it is a mortal sin.

    According to the principle, you can only participate in material cooperation with evil if is for a proportionate reason. Elevating the status of a suffering race, promoting social justice, improving the economy, or whatever, are not proportionate to the evil of abortion.

    A couple of reminders:

    ***”A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law that contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals” (CPL 4).

    ***In some political races, each candidate takes a wrong position on one or more of the five non-negotiables. In such a case you may vote for the candidate who takes the fewest such positions or who seems least likely to be able to advance immoral legislation, or you may choose to vote for no one.

    And finally, a quote from Fr. Corapi:

    A candidate or office holder is disqualified from receiving the vote of a Catholic in good conscience if they hold a pro-abortion position. In other words pro- choice candidates under the current set of circumstances are disqualified because of their pro-death political positions. We cannot vote for them. As the Bishops of Kansas recently asserted in their excellent voter’s guide, “Catholics would ‘commit moral evil’ by voting for a candidate who supports abortion and other intrinsically evil things. Voting is a moral act, and voting for pro-choice candidates is evil in itself. One becomes a collaborator in evil by so doing. No amount of rationalization can escape this logical and moral conclusion.

  • Mary Kochan

    cbalducc, I think you are correct regarding the ethtnicity — my source was wrong — not very important in my book, though. Obama looks black/mixed and would certainly have been treated as such in Jim Crow days. But I am revising my article.

  • http://catholichawk.com prairiehawk

    I agree that the Republicans badly botched their campaign. In the days following the Republican convention, when McCain-Palin were promising “Reform” and when Palin’s pro-life credentials were being publicly vetted, I was jubilant and predicting a pro-life, Republican victory. Boy was I wrong. McCain failed to keep the spotlight on Obama’s radical abortion views, while failing to articulate a coherent pro-life stance. It all makes me wonder if “pro-life” isn’t just a plank in the Republican platform that’s there to draw in Evangelicals and other social conservatives, that the Republicans give lip service to but don’t take to heart. Is abortion just another political game for the Republicans as well as the Democrats? It bodes poorly for our country if this is the case.

  • Mary Kochan

    Regarding Fr. Corapi, God love him — how many Catholic voters do you think read his remarks before voting? Look, for all of you folks voting for Obama WOULD have been a sin because you knew it was wrong. That probably didn’t apply to most Catholic voters. And BTW, there may have been a lot of Catholics who voted for McCain for wicked reasons.

    So I guess what that says is that before the next election, we need to make CE a lot more known so we can do more of the voter education and faith formation we are working on here day in and day out. Why don’t all of you commit to getting at least one other Catholic to join CE every month? Send links to our articles around to your friends and recommend the site every chance you get. We have already learned that the mainstream media is not going to tell the truth. We have to support Catholic media.

  • gerimom

    I too was upset Tuesday night at the election results. What angered me the most is calling the races before all the votes were in. Think about the voters in Alaska and Hawaii whose polls had not quite closed when McCain conceded. I call that giving up. My husband said that McCain might have lost, but he should not have conceded until all the votes were in.
    I also felt betrayed. I actually cried well into the night. Even my seven year old cried about the results.
    I know our responsibility now is to pray for our leaders, but that is difficult for me now.
    I had prayed for the election for over a month, praying that God would not let us choose Obama. I felt like my prayers had been in vain. Perhaps God does have a plan for Obama and our country, we are just not wise enough to know. It does little to ease the pain.
    God help us all.

  • heinz

    1. Yesterday, Steve Wood had an excellent “Faith and Family” show entitled “How to end legalized abortion in ten years.” It can be found at dads.org.

    2. Alan Keyes is a true black, so far as I know, and he’s really pro-life. Let’s go and stump for him starting the day after Obama’s inauguration.

    3. It appears that we won a small victory in the Senate races. Fortunately, the Senate is not filibuster-proof. Please contact your Senators (especially if they are pro-life) and tell them to filibuster the Freedom of Choice Act as well as any other morally unacceptable bill that comes to them. After that, watch them to make sure that they follow through. If they do not, do everything that you can to groom another pro-life candidate to oust them in the 2010/2012 primaries.


  • Cooky642

    While I agree with those whose hearts feel pierced and battered by the election results, I want to share a couple of things I’ve experienced this last week.

    First, I worked with family, friends, acquaintences and internet blogs, along with concentrated prayer, for almost 2 years to defeat the evil in this candidate-elect’s policies. Some paid attention; some didn’t.

    Secondly, when I woke up Tues. morning, before I voted or knew what was happening, I was reminded that “God inhabits our praises” (Ps. 22:3). Later in the day, I was reminded that “God works ALL things together for good…” (Rom. 8:28). I am convinced that God expects His people to TRUST Him in this.

    To sinewave, I want to say that you’re more correct than you know: they really do NOT know what they’ve done! When the bottom drops out and they figure it out, THAT’s when our message of God’s forgiveness and grace are going to be needed. Be ready.

    And, to JimMcFillin: you wrote “God is all just. I’m afraid for my country and my family.” So was I, before the election. Now I believe that our beloved country is under Judgement, and we are going to have to change our lives to accomodate what has fallen on us. No one can honestly say with a straight face that we don’t deserve it. The question now is, What do we do about it? What if we lose our homes, jobs, cars, and cushy lives? What if we are called on to become martyrs? Okay: what if? We need to “sit down and count the cost” with no time to lose. Will we WILL to appropriate our faith, or will we do what “they” have done and “go along” to “save” our lives?

    Mary, may I suggest more articles on suffering, what it means and how to do it?

  • jamespereira

    What a coincidence that I wrote about the same sentiments in my blog. Click here to read more …. http://romancatholicinfo.com/catholic-answers/elections-usa-2008/

  • hanley18106

    I think Mary Kochan’s suggestion to promote CE is a very practical piece of advice. What will be critical to fixing this problem the Pro-life movement has gotten itself into is relationships. We can’t just email articles (somewhat helpful thought that may be). We need to actively get involved in the types of ministries that CE highlights (like ENDOW). My husband is going to “That Man is You” and over 100 men go to our church every Friday morning at 6:00 AM to learn about what they as Catholic Christian men can do to be the leaders they were meant to be (and what a lack of leadership has cost this society…abortion being one of the most severe costs). I would also encourage all you folks out there who like CE to be MUCH more vocal about your viewpoints…not in an obnoxious way, but your enthusiasm for what you see on CE has to spill out into your everyday conversations. I am so excited to be a Catholic and I let everyone I meet know why. We will be facing great darkness so please let God shine through each and every one of you readers. Now go out and get busy and may God be with each and every one of you!!!

  • goral

    This election has brought us good news and bad news. The good news is that McCain lost and the bad news id that Obama won.
    We have identified the racists in this country and they are Obama supporters
    and self-loathing whites who buy into this sham that people of color have nothing but misery in this country.
    They have proven that they can not recognize a charletan when they see one.
    How then will their lives improve?
    Our newest immigrants also have learned a lesson that they can vote for themselves entitlements and play on the guilt of the liberal elites.
    I have no doubt that Obama and his band of bolsheviks will step on every dog doo-doo on the path and neither him nor his supporters will get much out of this.
    Get ready for four years of new episodes of the Three Stooges.

  • LarryW2LJ

    A few thoughts on this election:

    First off, while everyone wants to say that race had nothing to do with this election – it had EVERYTHING to do with this election. Mr. Obama got elected, in part, because of a huge outpouring of “white guilt”. I think a lot of people went into the election booth thinking that they were making good for past wrongs.

    Personally, for me, race had nothing to do with it. I wouldn’t have voted for Mr. Obama were he purple, pink, green or plaid. Alan Keyes, on the other hand, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat!

    Second, the Mainstream Media (the “Drive Bys” as Rush would name them) were in the tank for Obama from the start. They saw this as their opportunity to help create history. Look at the things they overlooked:

    1) Jeremiah Wright – if John McCain had sat in a pew for 20 years listening to some pastor spew out sermons devoted to White Supremacy – do you think he would have gotten away with it?

    2) Bill Ayers – if John McCain was friends with a convicted Abortion Clinic bomber – do you think the media would have passed on reporting it?

    3) Tony Rezzko – if John McCain had dealings with shady entrepreneurial types – do you think it would have been glossed over?

    The Catholic vote is immensely troubling to me. How can so many people call themselves “Catholic” and yet vote for a man who is so diametrically opposed to our stand on the sanctity of life? For me this is a black and white – no shades of gray issue. In my humble (and obviously minority opinion) you either voted for life in this election; or you voted against it. I take this extremely personal as my own sister and I got into a heated argument over this.

    Lastly, I’m not enough of an optimist to think that there is any reason that Mr. Obama will become a centrist and navigate away from his radical policies. I think this ties into the final reason the Mr. Obama won this election and that is “Bush Derangement Syndrome”. A stunning amount of people NEVER got over the 2000 election and have hated George Bush from Day 1. This is their time now to take back the country and do everything the way they want it. They suffered for eight years and now they will make the rest of us pay.

    On a final note, I see that Proposition 8 carried the day in California. The voters have spoken and it is supposed to become fact, via the constitution of California, that marriage is the union of a man and a woman – as per the will of the people. Seriously, how long do you think that’s going to last? The Courts are going to end up overturning said “Will of the People” in a nanosecond. After all, the Judges believe themselves to be all knowing and so much better informed than the “ignorant masses” who dare vote such outdated, ignorant opinions into law. (Sarcasm, of course).

    Congratulations to the brave people of California for taking a stand. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will stand the “rigged” test of time.

  • Mary Kochan

    Yes, but supporting CE will help us survive and we want to be here as a resource for all of you. We need 1. readers, 2. members, 3. finacial support. We are thinking of ways to retool the site for more local and national activism also, because we see the need for that.

  • Cooky642

    To LarryW2LJ: I understand your bewilderment (agony?) over all those who claim to be Catholic and voted for our new President. I feel it, too. (Anyone know where I can buy a “whip of cords”???)

    On the other hand, remember the old addage: just because you live in a garage doesn’t make you a car.

    I’ve said it before–I guess it bears repeating. And, I believe Mr. Obama’s election will only speed the process. The Catholic Church in America has been hell-bent on schism since Vatican II. Catholics who want a “democratic” Church, women priests and all the other gagging ideas will break off and form the AMERICAN Catholic Church. The rest of us will remain Roman Catholics, and probably not for long.

    As depressing as that sounds, lift up your head: your redemption draweth nigh!!!

  • catholic_mom

    I teach in a state university Political Science Dept. Using Martin Luther King, Jr.’s quote concerning “judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character” — I told my classes that I applied that quote to my choice, and voted for McCain. I pointed out that not all African-Americans support Obama (see http://www.blackgenocide.org for black prolifers). As for “1st Black President”: that probably could have been Colin Powell, but he refused to run. Condoleeza Rice would have been a great ticket addition, probably as V.P., but she also was not interested in the job.

    I also described three abortion methods (suction, saline, and partial-birth) and let them know the FOCA would be the next big battle. My students were TOTALLY unaware of the horrors of abortion procedures. They ALL agreed partial-birth should be illegal, if not all abortion.

    I also asked them to agree/disagree with a couple statements — most all agreed; I pointed out that my statements were Republican philosophies. They were surprised.

    My African-American colleague had a student refer to the “expiation of white guilt” in conversation with him — a major factor in the liberal vote, I’m sure.

    It’s time to TURN THE TABLES. Instead of defending against “Catholics need to get over the abortion issue so we can just move on!” WE need to say “Democrats need to get over right to life issue so we can just move on!” We need to point to the words “right to life” as found in our Declaration of Independence!! We need to emphasize that Roe Vs. Wade didn’t legalize abortion, but merely ruled on a woman’s right to privacy. We need to SPEAK OUT and make Conservatism cool, because IT IS.

    If anyone is interested in brainstorming ideas, please e-mail me: catholic_mom@catholicexchange.com

  • Makis Chrysafi

    In 2000, GWB barely won the Presidency. That should have been our wake-up call that the moral majority was at the threshold of non-existence. In 2008, the Catholic Church and many priests and bishops were better mobilized and vocalized. Yet Life candidates and issues failed.

    The Moral Majority is now the Moral Minority.

    It is now time for truly moral people to go back to “school”, learn the issues, learn the techniques, learn how to dialog reasonably, learn how to get to people’s hearts. Being hip, smart and attractive will help. But dialoging with unconditional compassion and love will be crucial.

    The reason abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, cloning and embryonic stem-cell research are realities is that most people lack experiences of compassion and love. People are afraid of pain, afraid of suffering, afraid of meaningless lives, afraid of abandonment. So they look for the quick fix. And the only way to annihilate these fears is through MASSIVE LOVE. We have to reach people’s hearts before we can reach their minds. And we need to reach their minds to heal the culture.

    Don’t get me wrong — it would have been a great relief had McCain won. But it is time we all face reality: Ours is now an uphill battle. We are outnumbered and the only way to gain strength in numbers is by converting others to our side through unconditional love and service (especially in the cities). It won’t be easy, but it is the only way.

    Go to http://healingtheculture.com/ for more information.

  • saintstephen

    What America has done is demoralized itself to the point where punishment is inevitable. The Lord makes the rain to fall and the sun to shine on the wicked as well as the just, although American should not expect Christ to bless abortion and the killing of innocents in war and homosexual marriages nor any other sin of immorality. As long as this nation continues to permit immorality, the Blessing of Christ will be withheld and we as a nation will fall deeper into recession toward poverty until the message is heard to repent of our evil before the Judgement Seat of Christ.This is a very difficult concept for non-Christians to accept although I am certain the Christian and non-Christian alike will understand the gravity of sin in immorality when poverty is everywhere like a deep crust of ice all over American.Every war America has declared has ended in poverty for American. Every sin this nation enacts as law has brought us closer to poverty. The only way Barrack Obama will lead us out of recession is to lead us out of sin in both war, abortion, homosexuality and all other sins against humanity.

  • Mary Kochan

    Let’s see WWI was followed by the Roaring 20’s.

    WWII was followed by the baby boom and the prosperous 50’s.

    That people keep equating war and abortion is part of the problem.

  • saintstephen

    War causes economic poverty and when the war is over and the killing has ended, then prosperity will return. There has never been a war in the history of the entire world that did not bring economic poverty with it. Conversely there has never been a war that ended and the killing stopped that did not bring prosperity at the actual end of the violence. Abortion produces the same effect, there has never been an abortion that did not bring with it economic poverty, nor has there been a childbirth that has not brought with it economic prosperity.

  • saintstephen

    Have you never heard the battle cry of war, “To the victor belong the spoils” The object of war is to rape, pillage and plunder. And the victor takes from his enemy all that he has. The commandment of God is “Thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

  • Mary Kochan

    Not according to the Catechism. Sorry, but the Church teaches otherwise. I’ll let the military people among our readers deal with your blanket insult of them.

  • saintstephen

    The Catechism is not the only source of Church teaching as a Catholic should know. Protestants choose one verse in Scripture and make a religion out of that verse, Catholic’s comprehend the entire Bible as well as the history and heritage of the Church tradition. Please read the following text on war from the Vatican: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030211_religions-peace_en.html



    (ROME, 16-18 JANUARY 2003)

  • saintstephen

    From US Catholic Conference of Bishops “In our November statement,” Bishop Ricard wrote, “we acknowledged that ‘people of good will may differ on how to apply just war norms in particular cases,’ but made the prudential judgment that “based on the facts that are known to us, we continue to find it difficult to justify the resort to war against Iraq, lacking clear and adequate evidence of an imminent attack of a grave nature.”

  • saintstephen

    he Holy See

    Pope John Paul II, Address to the Diplomatic Corps, January 13, 2003

    And what are we to say of the threat of a war which could strike the people of Iraq, the land of the Prophets, a people already sorely tried by more than twelve years of embargo? War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations. As the Charter of the United Nations Organization and international law itself remind us, war cannot be decided upon, even when it is a matter of ensuring the common good, except as the very last option and in accordance with very strict conditions, without ignoring the consequences for the civilian population both during and after the military operations.

  • saintstephen

    U.S. House of Representatives
    Washington, D.C. 20515
    Dear Representatives:
    On behalf of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, I commend you for
    sponsoring House Concurrent Resolution 228, expressing the need for more comprehensive and
    sustained diplomatic initiatives to address the ongoing war in Iraq.
    For over two years, our Bishops’ Conference has called for bipartisan action to bring
    about a “responsible transition” to end the war in Iraq. We remain convinced that our nation
    needs a new direction to reduce the war’s deadly toll on Iraqi citizens and on regional stability.
    We need to bring our nation together to deal with the continuing moral and human consequences
    of the conflict. Our Conference welcomes this bipartisan resolution as a significant attempt to
    help break the ongoing political stalemate in Washington and fashion a new way forward.
    We support the Resolution’s emphasis on a comprehensive diplomatic initiative with a
    continued “drawdown and eventual departure” of our armed forces in a “responsible manner.”
    In November 2007, our Conference stated:
    …[B]uilding a just peace in Iraq requires far more than military action; it
    demands a comprehensive political, diplomatic and economic effort. This effort
    begins in Iraq, but it does not end there. For this reason, we believe sustained
    U.S. efforts to collaborate with the other nations, including Syria and Iran, are
    critically important for bringing some measure of stability to Iraq.
    Our Conference especially welcomes the Resolution’s clear concern for displaced
    persons and refugees and its focus on reconstruction and relief. Given our concern with
    protecting the most vulnerable, we have said that our nation’s current policy neglects the dire
    situation of Iraqi refugees who have fled their country and internally displaced persons who have
    fled their homes. A disproportionate number of them are Christians and other vulnerable
    minorities. Funding for reconstruction is sorely needed to rebuild Iraq’s infrastructure so that
    refugees may consider returning to Iraq.
    The Resolution also recognizes the sacrifices of our military personnel and their families
    and the “comprehensive rehabilitation, physical, mental, and educational, economic assistance”
    March 14, 2008
    Page Two
    that they deserve. As pastors, we believe our nation has a moral obligation to deal with the
    human, medical, mental health and social costs of military action.
    It is our sincere hope that House Concurrent Resolution 288 will contribute to the morally
    and politically demanding, but carefully limited, goal of responsible transition that aims to
    reduce further loss of life and to address the humanitarian crisis in Iraq, the refugee crisis in the
    region, and the need to help rebuild that war-torn country.
    Sincerely yours,
    Most Reverend Thomas G. Wenski
    Bishop of Orlando
    Chairman, Committee on International Justice and

  • saintstephen

    Department of Social Development and World Peace
    3211 FOURTH STREET NE • WASHINGTON DC 20017-1194 • FAX 202-541-3339
    September 27, 2007
    (Note: This is the text of a letter that was sent to the Members of Congress,
    the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor.)
    As the Congress and our country face important decisions about the terrible dilemmas and realities in
    Iraq, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops seeks to draw on our moral teaching to raise
    some difficult ethical questions regarding the road ahead.
    Our Church ministers among our troops and shares deep spiritual ties to the Church and people in
    Iraq. As pastors and teachers, we are convinced that the current situation in Iraq is unacceptable and
    unsustainable. In this letter, we reiterate the goal of a “responsible transition” as an ethical
    framework for national decisions.
    We view with alarm the political stalemate in Washington and urge the leaders of both parties in the
    executive and legislative branches to work together to move beyond the current partisan paralysis.
    Our country needs a new direction to reduce the war’s deadly toll and to bring our people together in
    an effort to deal with the conflict’s moral and human dimensions. Our nation needs a new bipartisan
    approach to Iraq policy based on honest and civil dialogue.
    The Conference encourages our nation’s leaders to focus on the morally and politically demanding,
    but carefully limited goal of fostering a “responsible transition” and withdrawal. The moral demands
    of this transition begin with addressing the humanitarian crisis in Iraq and minimizing further loss of
    human life.
    Our nation must now focus more on the ethics of exit than on the ethics of intervention. The grave
    moral concerns we and others raised prior to the war now give way to new and difficult questions:
    What actions will do the most good and least harm? What elements of a responsible transition are
    attainable? How can they be achieved? What actions should be avoided?
    Building a just peace in Iraq requires far more than military actions; it requires a comprehensive
    political and diplomatic effort. Policy makers should clearly define a limited military mission that
    reflects realistic goals and a just cause. Should our policy focus more on improving dire
    humanitarian conditions rather than on the more ambitious goal of establishing a pluralistic
    democracy? Does a continuing and substantial U.S. presence impede or postpone needed
    accommodation and hard choices by the Iraqis? How can decision-makers take into account both the
    realities and setbacks in Iraq and the likely human consequences of rapid withdrawal? What are the
    financial costs and global consequences of continued war and occupation?
    As the mission in Iraq is re-focused, our leaders should reiterate our nation’s pledge not to seek
    permanent military bases in Iraq nor control over Iraqi oil resources.
    A neglected policy priority is the dire situation of refugees, internally displaced persons, Christians
    and other vulnerable minorities in Iraq. The suffering of the Christian community has a particular
    claim on our hearts and consciences, but we recognize that Christians are not alone in their plight.
    The U.S. should immediately make more substantial commitments to Iraqi refugees by expanding
    admissions, eliminating roadblocks to resettlement, and supporting countries in the region burdened
    with war-related refugee populations.
    U.S. efforts to collaborate with other nations, including Syria and Iran, are critically important for
    bringing a measure of stability to Iraq. Recent U.N. initiatives related to Iraq are hopeful signs, but
    working multilaterally will require the U.S. to yield a level of control to others. Given how the
    conflict was initiated, real international cooperation may be difficult to achieve, yet it remains
    indispensable. The work of stabilizing and rebuilding Iraq rests primarily with Iraqis, but the United
    States and other nations must help Iraqis when they attempt to move forward. Given the extensive
    devastation in Iraq, the U.S. has a unique and inescapable obligation to continue to support
    development and reconstruction.
    Iraq’s future stability is related to the stability of the region. For this reason, U.S. leadership to
    advance a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians is critical. The continuing failure to achieve the
    vision of two states living side by side in peace and justice makes everything else in the region more
    difficult. Real progress toward a fair Israeli-Palestinian agreement would help stabilize the region
    and deprive extremists of a cause they exploit to promote hate and violence.
    In all military actions, ethical norms require protecting civilians, using proportionate and
    discriminate force, rejecting torture, and fighting terrorism with nonmilitary means and the legitimate
    use of force when necessary.
    U.S. policy must take into account the growing costs and consequences of a continued occupation on
    military personnel, their families and our nation. There is a moral obligation to deal with the human,
    medical, mental health and social costs of military action. Our nation should ask: What is the moral
    basis for the continuing sacrifices of our military personnel? Who bears the sacrifices and burdens
    of this war? How will our nation bring healing and long-term help to individuals, families and
    Each course of action in Iraq should be weighed in light of the traditional moral principle of
    “probability of success,” i.e. the likelihood that the action will contribute to a “responsible transition”
    and withdrawal as soon as appropriate and possible. This principle requires our nation’s leaders to be
    more realistic about the difficult situation in Iraq and more concerned about the likely consequences
    of a withdrawal that is too rapid or not rapid enough.
    In closing we return to our heartfelt plea that the Administration and the Congress begin to work
    together to bring an end to this war and occupation at the earliest opportunity consistent with the
    limited goal of a responsible transition and the protection of human lives—Iraqi and American.
    Sincerely yours,
    Most Reverend Thomas G. Wenski
    Bishop of Orlando
    Chairman, Committee on International Policy

  • Mary Kochan

    I notice that you have gone from a discussion of “war” to a discussion of the Iraq war. None of the statements you have posted about this particular war justify the assertions you made generally about war.

  • saintstephen


    RAPE, PILLAGE, AND BURN” has been a warrior ethic since time immemorial. It was used to describe the behavior of the Mongol hordes in their centuries-long sweep through southern and western Asia. It described the war actions of Romans and Europeans into the Middle Ages. We have heard of it in the conduct of colonial armies and revolutionary forces everywhere. The Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo reminded us that this primitive behavior–usually rape–is still evident and functioning in the actions of men in groups into the 21st century. Rape remains an operative part of military …

  • saintstephen


    The hypocrisy is astounding. When one investigates our complicity in death squads, torture, massacres, rape, and mass destruction, one realizes that freedom often threatens the current power structure in this country.

    I used to consider those incidents as anomalistic in comparison to the “protection” we offered the planet at seemingly no charge. But then I joined the Marines, and I realized why I had believed in the government: they were experts in manipulation.

    Barely out of high school, the Corps broke us down and built us up in order to shape us into machines, willing to defend the ideals of the power elites in Washington and corporate America.

  • saintstephen


    ust the “horrors” of war some say. You know, kind of like “collateral” damage. While there are others claiming the stories are much worse than reality, while even the Democrats on the Senate Armed Services Committee are working hand in hand with their fellow Republicans to keep a great deal of the new evidence of sex crimes and murder, perpetrated against these Iraqis who had been convicted of no crime, out of the hands of the American People.

    Perhaps, some of these photos and videotapes the Senate is hiding will find their way into the hands of the foreign press. Then they will be available for the whole world to see on the Internet. Even while our politicians on both sides work like cats in a sandbox to cover up the truth from the citizens of this country, and the world.

    All of this is not new. The much-worshipped first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, conducted just such a war against the citizens of the South. Murder, rape, pillaging and theft were rampant, perpetrated by the Union Army. Charles Adams documents in his fine work, “When in the Course of Human Events” that some Northern newspapers even called for the total annihilation of the entire people of the South.

    Lincoln, the master of duplicity, had issued a “code of conduct” if you will, for the Northern Army. It was known as General Order No. 100, also known as the “Lieber Code”. As professor Thomas DiLorenzo points out “The Code’s author was the German legal scholar Francis Leiber, an advisor to Otto von Bismarck and a staunch advocate of centralized governmental power. In his writings Lieber denounced the federal system of government created by the American founding fathers as having created “confederacies of petty sovereigns” and dismissed the Jeffersonian philosophy of government as a collection of “obsolete ideas.” In Germany he was arrested several times for subversive activities.”

    This code, while mentioning the illegality of waging war against the civilian populace, gave total discretion to the commanders in the field to dismiss the code if situations “warranted.”

  • saintstephen


    Their stories, recorded and typed into thousands of pages of transcripts, reveal disturbing patterns of behavior by American troops in Iraq. Dozens of those interviewed witnessed Iraqi civilians, including children, dying from American firepower. Some participated in such killings; others treated or investigated civilian casualties after the fact. Many also heard such stories, in detail, from members of their unit. The soldiers, sailors and marines emphasized that not all troops took part in indiscriminate killings. Many said that these acts were perpetrated by a minority. But they nevertheless described such acts as common and said they often go unreported–and almost always go unpunished.

    Court cases, such as the ones surrounding the massacre in Haditha and the rape and murder of a 14-year-old in Mahmudiya, and news stories in the Washington Post, Time, the London Independent and elsewhere based on Iraqi accounts have begun to hint at the wide extent of the attacks on civilians. Human rights groups have issued reports, such as Human Rights Watch’s Hearts and Minds: Post-war Civilian Deaths in Baghdad Caused by U.S. Forces, packed with detailed incidents that suggest that the killing of Iraqi civilians by occupation forces is more common than has been acknowledged by military authorities.

  • saintstephen

    I was a soldier in the Vietnam war. Father Kim Jung came to me while I was there to ask for donations to his orphanage, 5000 American/Vietnamese children born to American soldiers who fornicated with Vietnamese women. I got permission to leave my post to go with Father Kim to beg American soldiers for donations to the orphanage which was only 5 miles from my base camp. I did not hear of any abortions in Vietnam although there were hundreds of thousands of abandoned American fathered children. On the Vietnamese government website there are still thousands of abandoned American fathered children living on the streets of Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam without support from their fathers or mothers. Countless numbers of Vietnamese families homes were destroyed by American bombing and search/destroy missions as well as families broken apart and many lost because of the terror of raids. I thank God I came back alive. Recently I have been frequently to the Veterans Hospital for check ups and have opportunity to talk to veterans from Korea, World War II and World War I, Iraq, Desert Storm, Afghanistan and so far I have not met one soldier who denies the atrocities of American military actions against civilians, women and children and many describe incidents of rape, pillage and burn in cities and nations where they were stationed. My statements are fully concurred with by men and women who witnessed first hand the dark side of the US Military actions in overseas wars. Abortion is most definitely a terrible evil and Catholics need to continue protest with Obama although Obama’s intent to remove us from war should be supported and encouraged by all Catholic faithful as this has already been made clear by the Conference of Bishops as well as the Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI. The atrocities of war are intrinsically as evil as the atrocity of abortion in the well documented opinion of the Vatican. Both evils will bring America deeper into the culture of death unless American Catholic are fully united to protest the American culture of immorality across the board, making those protests against all that is evil in war, abortion, homosexual marriage, immigration, Catholic school deviations, and all other areas of immoral teaching and behavior concurred with in American law and public policies.

  • mom of 5

    I have lost the point of all the words that you have posted saintstephen. I think in the beginning you were saying that because America has become so involved in the culture of death by war, abortion, etc. that we can expect that God is not pleased and that we will continue to have problems heaped upon problems as a chastisement. That was the gist of your point, I thought. I think that many who post and read here might well agree with you.

    The thousands of words you have posted now have seemed to morph into equating war with abortion as two equally weighted moral issues. If there were equal numbers of victims killed as well as an equal opportunity for them to defend themselves (however ineffective that defense may be), I might agree with you. But that is not the case. Every abortion is an intrinsic evil while SOME acts of war are not. Every unborn killed by abortion is completely helpless and defenseless while SOME killed in war are actively engaged in defense and in aggression themselves. War is one facet of the culture of death however the main thread interwoven through the entire fabric of that culture is the basic assumption that it is permissable to use violent means to solve a problem. The primary source of that thread is the acceptance of the violence of abortion as the solution to the problem of unwanted pregnancy.

    I do take issue with your broad painting of the members of the US military as thugs who “rape, pillage and burn”. My father, my brother, my husband, his brother, several uncles, my niece, many friends, many sons and daughters of friends, and husbands & wives of friends are also veterans or active duty military who have served or are serving in war zones all around the world. While I am sure that they would agree with the fact that these atrocities happen on occasion, they would also say that the vast majority of US military men and women serve with honor and have not done the evil acts that you describe. As you stated that you are a VietNam veteran, I would think you would be more careful about broadly condemning a large group of individuals based on the actions of small percentage of their members. The article link in one of your postings alone is deeply offensive and wrong: “us-military-homicidal-psychopaths.html” All of your pseudo-intellectual ranting in the rest of your posts is undermined by the fact that you would quote tripe such as that as a source of anything approaching reality. Please refrain from spitting on the military of today as my brother was spat upon in San Francisco on his return from Viet Nam so many years ago.

  • Mary Kochan

    saintstephen, please take the words above as a warning regarding the appropriatness of your posts. I suggest you move on to other topics and demonstrate that you have a real contribution to make in the comboxes. Thanks.

    Mary Kochan, Senior Editor, Catholic Exchange

  • saintstephen

    Mary, If all you can do is threaten me with your intent to remove my membership that is a small price to pay for my honesty. Obviously you have no real interest in Catholic teaching and moral behavior of Americans at war or in abortion. I suggest you take another course in RCIA as you must have missed the entire section regarding the Sacraments.

  • Mary Kochan

    Personal attacks are not allowed on this forum. If you are removed it will be for rudeness, not for honesty.

    Also, it is not my “intent” to remove you as you falsely claim; it is my intent that you should stay and make a contribution to our discussions. I think that was clear from my post inviting you to comment on other topics.

  • saintstephen

    Mary Since when did you become judge of both heaven and earth? I thought Christ had that job.

  • saintstephen

    Mary, So your saying that your crying jag about Obama winning the Presidency is a “real contribution” editorially? What makes you imagine that your contribution is more valuable than mine?

  • Warren Jewell

    Talk about the blizzard of saintstephen’s day . . . laddie, open a forum topic and I’ll meet you there. Your variance from the topic is irritating and distracting. I was inclined to call you a bonehead until I noticed that you are a Baby Boomer. As one BBer myself, I have found that we can be so breathtakingly dull and one-dimensional. Boneheadedness can be a step-up, at times.

    It’s late July, now – and B.O. has plans for my end-of-life that will be meant to expedite said end. The man is proving himself out only too well. Of course, he is aided and abetted by a Democratic-liberal army made up of – hey! Baby Boomers. Another awful pudding in the proof!

    I have less and less respect for Obama and his party as the weeks go by, and it has been some seemingly LONG weeks since he was inaugurated. No, I had little respect for him before the election – as an Illinoisan, I knew this guy was a devotee of the culture of death. If blacks wanted a perosn to vote for, this was definitely a very poor choice. If America wanted ‘hope and change’, they have less and less of the former as they get a gander at the latter.

    Of why Nov.4 found us with this man, we should at least recognize the leg-shivering MSM, who had not a single criticism of Obama and nothing but vile if veiled vituperation for Republicans contrived around George W. Bush. And, Americans fell for this garbage, and their own ‘entitlements’ and perks, like the sophomoric fools too many of us have been educated to become. I could see too probable Obama victory for months, just based on the MSM and the credulous fools of America.

    Then, just a few months before the general election, the economy went into the pit – based on Democratic political chicanery, and Republican cowardly complicity, about housing, for great part. If McCain were Padre Pio and Palin Mother Teresa, the MSM would have buried them. I am surprised that as many as 47% of us found Obama unpalatable enough to vote for the Republican ticket.

    To me, I may pay for this horrible electoral results with my life as surely as if I was an unborn black baby in a lonely, afraid, even threatened, young black girl. My daughter, bless her potently conservative heart – her brood has become as fiercely and vocally conservative as she is – has told me “Dad, if you feel in danger – come here with us: Greg’s Dad has left arms with us.” She also told me “I’m having babies until I can’t – we need all the help we can get.” I’m not quite sure she didn’t mean her ‘team of magazine loaders’ as well ‘God’s little blessings’. But, I don’t think that she is alone as a very upset American, taxpayer, parent, spouse, child of God. Her household has more or less adopted the dual attitude of readying to give of their ‘lives, fortunes and sacred honor’ with ‘we must surely hang together or we will surely hang separately’. My daughter is as avid a reader as I am, and her own self-education puts such Ivy League liberals as Obama to shame. By observation of the man’s words and efforts to date, she surely knows more (may have FORGOTTEN more) about history and economics than Barack Hussein Obama has read. In this uneducated (UNREAD!) aspect of the man and his army of fans, my daughter is as disgusted as I am.

    Now, the popularity of B.O. seems to be collapsing. One can drink only so much Kool-aid, and the sugar-high is rolling down, now. To saintstephen’s dismay, where our soldiers, God bless their loyal efforts in harms’ way, are moving in relative success out of Iraq, they are reinforcing the troops in Afghanistan. About Viet Nam – he may have witnessed a throng of 5,000 abandoned mixed American-Asian babies, and shame on us; but most were products of prostitution among starving Viet girls, not rapes. Such poor civilians have always been plentiful in combat zones, and there is no need to rape a girl when she will do all but the high-wire for five bucks. And, sir, tell the vets from Marine and Special Forces forward bases all about the pillaging they were doing. All wars bring awful results in war zones, but Americans have never been general participants in the organized horrors witnessed in prior 20th-century wars.

    Fianly, sir, I have witnessed, too: a wall with the names of more than 50,000 of his comrades in arms who tried to leave the region a safer home for freedom. Oddly, they were Baby Boomers who were among the cream of our crop. A high percentage were black; a healthy portion other non-Caucasian folk. I have to wonder: how would they have voted Nov.4?

    I’m gettin’ winded with being long-winded. “Be not afraid – I go before you, always”. He and His angels will re-group – He will not be denied His eternal triumph. God bless you all, yes, even you saintstevie.

  • Warren Jewell

    Oh, yes – kevnjosf started this long comment string witb remembering that God can whammy any one of us with a ‘Paul on the road to Damascus’ moment. (My daughter grins at the suggestion that not a one of us couldn’t benefit from being so dirtied unfashionably from and temporarily blinded to our sinful ways.) God may yet find some wondrous way to knock some Obamite hegemons off their high horses. As I said above, HE WILL NOT BE DENIED His triumph in His love and grace. Eternity is His and no one else’s, and His good stuff in eternity He made for very us. Fear not – you are His beloved children. Nothing comes your way except as He wills it. It may seem genuinely awful; but who knows what worse we might have gotten into, being so weak and foolish without Him?

    Come, Lord Jesus.

  • Michael

    “The object of war is to rape, pillage and plunder.” ARE YOU SERIOUS?

    What a, forgive me, STUPID thing to say.

    Whether individuals act poorly in war, even if their side is the morally superior (WWII, Revolutionary) is a far cry from the statement that those bad acts are the object of the conflict. Saintstephen’s experiences during Vietnam and attention to sites that attempt to inflate anecdote to prove his point trivialize the service of the vast majority who have served honorably in the armed forces, a number of whom are also readers and provide comment on this site – in fact, it besmirches that honor. As a veteran myself I can say that during my service I was honored to be a part of the squadron and Wing with which I served. That you are not, saintstephen, is unfortunate…but would you lump together all priests with those who committed terrible acts against children and say that the object of the ordained ministry is pedophilia, pederasty, and rape?

    Shame on you! Each and every member of the armed services who has or continues to serve honorably so that you can spout your vitriol deserves an abject, unreserved apology from you.

    Equally uninformed is the comment:

    “The Catechism is not the only source of Church teaching as a Catholic should know.”

    Since the catechism is the summary of the faith, Catholics should look to it for answers. Comparisons to the protestant use of the Bible is specious at best and just plain wrong on its face.

    If you were trying to prove the catechism wrong, saintstephen, by you appeal to the USCCB, etc., on the single issue of the Iraq war, that says a lot about how much you need to learn about your faith.