News from Iowa: The Media Simply Don’t ‘Get’ Religion

"Consider the major poll of those who attended the Iowa caucuses; it was done at the behest of the four major television networks plus CNN and the AP. Republicans were asked two questions: whether it mattered that the candidate shared his or her religious beliefs and whether the voter would describe himself or herself as a ‘born-again or evangelical Christian.' Democrats were asked – well, they were not asked anything about their religious beliefs or lack thereof." – Mark Stricherz, Getreligion.org, Jan. 5

Getreligion.org is one of my favorite Web sites, not because it's Catholic or pious – it's neither – but because it asks the right questions. Founded by journalist and media scholar Terry Mattingly and several reporter colleagues, getreligion.org subjects the mass media's religion coverage to the same hard review that the news media provide to American culture at large.

The results aren't comforting. The evidence gathered by getreligion.org shows again and again that the press doesn't "get" religion as a story. Denver is unusual in having two major newspapers, both with capable religion coverage. But overall, major news organizations tend to cover religion poorly, predictably and too often with a negative undercurrent. As we enter yet another election year, Catholics should remember that what we read in the newspapers, hear on the radio and see on television is often useful, but it's always a selective taste of reality. Deciding about a candidate based on the latest headlines, or about an issue based on the latest reported poll, is a recipe for trouble.

Anyone who needs proof can simply check out a Jan. 5 getreligion.org story by Mark Stricherz ("Are Democrats not religious?"). Stricherz's report is not just another argument for whether Democrats or Republicans are good or bad; obviously, plenty of very good people, including many religious believers, inhabit both political parties.

Rather, Stricherz's point is this: The way the major news media frame or ignore religion's role in American public life can be deeply misleading. If delegates from one political party are asked questions about their religious faith in an Iowa caucus poll, and delegates from the other political party in the same poll are not, we can reasonably ask why – and what the consequences might be for news coverage. This is exactly what happened in Iowa last week.

Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and John Edwards have all spoken quite publicly about their religious faith in recent months. Yet as Stricherz notes, the recent Iowa caucus poll supported by all four major TV networks, CNN and AP was framed in a way that presumed religion is a major factor for Republicans and not for Democrats. Maybe that's true; maybe it's not – but we won't ever know from the poll results, because the right questions weren't asked.

As we move into 2008, we can expect another round of professional media worrying about the "unhealthy interference" of religion in American politics. We need to ignore it – or better yet, we need to answer it with the overwhelming evidence of American history. Religious faith, religious believers and religious leaders have always played a major role in informing American public debate, to the betterment of the whole community.

Ultimately, every voter has the duty to follow his or her own properly formed conscience. And we all have an obligation to respect the dignity of others. But the best way to be "faithful citizens" is to put our beliefs about God, moral character and common sense before every other loyalty. We have nothing to offer our political party or our nation if we agree to downplay our religious and moral convictions when we come to society's toughest issues. Today and always, we pursue our vocation as American citizens best by living our Catholic faith authentically first.

Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

By

Charles Joseph Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. is the ninth and current Archbishop of Philadelphia, serving since his installation on September 8, 2011

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  • Guest

    Archbishop Chaput is, of course, correct to point out that we have duty to follow our properly formed conscience and our religious and moral convictions when fulfilling our civic obligations. But, he shouldn't blame the media for poor reporting of the role of religion in American politics.

    The media is merely reporting what it sees and hears from politicians with names like Kennedy, DeLay, Kerry, Clinton, Durbin, Carter, DeLauro, and Dodd who have been quick to announce their religious affiliations, and just as quick to deny the teachings of their churches by their positions on moral issues. Politicians trumpet their religion because many voters cast their votes based on that single fact. Politicians take immoral positions on the issues because many of the voters, including members of their own denominations, agree with those positions.

    We would not even know these politicians' names if voters strongly disagreed with their immoral positions, because they would never have been elected.

    And, politicians have been showing their religious hypocrisy for years because the hierarchy of their churches fails to challenge their positions. I do not know whether this failure is because of fear of the IRS, fear of controversy, or because the hierarchy supports these politicians. But, I know the media surely takes its cue from those in authority that "go along to get along". And, it is clear that the leadership of America's churches has failed to challenge the hypocrisy of our politicians from either the pulpit or in the public square.

    The media is a popular whipping boy, but the silence and inaction of American Christians and the leadership of our churches are the reason why the media reports religion as it does.

     

  • Guest

    Techwreck

    You have obviously never been a victim of the news media’s tell it like they want to reporting techniques of twisting what you say into what they want it to be regardless of the truth. I have and i’m sure our worthy Archbishop has on several occasions.

    If our news media asked proper questions and reported the news accuratly we would not have most of the problems you speak of and many of the other problems in our society. Yet you choose to blame “the silence and inaction of American Christians and the leadership of the churches.”

    I will say this again and hopefully for the last time. Our Clergy needs our prayers and support not our unfounded critical remarks.

    From your comments on this thread and previous articles from our Bishops, I wish you would stop using our hierarchy as your personal “whipping boy.” Or, maybe you should try walking on water!

  • Guest

    RobertKH, I'm apologize if my comments about our politicians and the response of our churches have bothered you. Perhaps I did not fully explain where I am coming from.

    First, I have been a "victim" of the news media's "tell it like they want to" reporting techniques as a pro-life lobbyist for a Catholic diocese.

    Second, I assume you agree with my comments about politicians in general abusing their religion for political purposes since you don't challenge them.

    Thus, I assume you have a problem with my remarks on the failure of Christian denominations to condemn this political hypocrisy. Please note, I did not single out the Catholic hierarchy. My view is that the general reluctance of the leadership in all of our Christian churches to condemn political hypocrisy misleads the faithful who reward these politicians by voting for them.

    I don't believe I am using anyone as a "whipping boy". For the record, I consider Archbishop Chaput one of the "good guys" who is willing to educate the faithful on controversial topics. But, he is in the minority of the leadership of U.S. Christian denominations.

  • Guest

    techwreck

    I appreciate and congratulate you on your efforts as a pro-life lobbyist. Thank you for helping to Defend Life! Please accept my apology for the assuming you have not seen the Media Games first hand. Your first post made it sound like you have not. And thank you for clarifying some of your comments.

    Yes, we as Christians and all need to do much more than what we are doing now. Many Christian Leaders do not openly condemn this hypocrisy, and that is part of the problem. Do you really think that is, “the reason why the media reports religion as it does?” The misinformation that the media puts out and the people that listen to and read it like it is the gospel truth are the biggest part of the problem.

    As Archbishop Chaput said trying to admonish the CE readers that, “Catholics should remember that what we read in the newspapers, hear on the radio and see on television is often useful, but it’s always a selective taste of reality.”

    Let me repeat that last line.

    It’s always a selective taste of reality.”

    In your last sentence on the original post when you say, “the leadership of our churches,” does that not include leaders of our church, the Holy Father, our Bishops, and Priests? If so, you are still being critical of our clergy and, that is what I take exception to. Our clergy deserve our respect, support, and most of all prayers especially if they are among the majority of US Catholic Bishops.

    Be critical in private if you must. Write them a letter or most have email. But do it in support of their ministry with respect. Your public criticism does nothing but diminish their dignity in the eyes of CE readers and in their own eyes if they happen to read it. They probably do!

  • Guest

    “What we read in the newspapers, hear on the radio and see on television is often useful, but it’s always a selective taste of reality.”

    I think we should force all of the news agencies, Radio, Newspapers. Magazines, Etc. . . Post that statement in big bold letters before and after every news cast, headline etc.

  • Guest

    What voter does not know the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is wrong and that a Catholic should not vote for anyone who does not defend life from conception to natural death?  

    Culpability does not lie with the heirarchy of the Church even if there are certain wolves that go around in sheeps clothing. Culpability lies in the hardened hearts of mankind.

    In Christ, 

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    RobertKH, I'm sorry, but as long as public figures like Kennedy, DeLay, Kerry, Clinton, Durbin, Carter, DeLauro, and Dodd are not challenged, some in the leadership of Christian churches are not fulfilling their responsibilities and do not deserve our respect.

    Pray for them? Yes, pray for them daily.

  • Guest

    DTG,

    Regarding "What voter does not know the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is wrong and that a Catholic should not vote for anyone who does not defend life from conception to natural death

    The answer is astonishingly few. The majority never hear a word about the difference between "intrinsic evil" and "prudential judgement."

    Don't you remember the DNC voters' guide for Catholics where they listed a bunch of Church teachings, weighed them all evenly, racked and stacked their positons and gave themselves high marks?

    But it depends on what yo umean by a "Catholic" voter. A huge factor in weighing the "Catholic vote" is that the "Catholic" voter is self-identified in most polls.  Rarely is there a screening question to ask, say, if they attend Mass weekly — a precept of the Church. When that question is asked, the results change very dramatically.

    The media, however, will never tell you this.  They will simpy regurgitate that "56% of Catholics belive abortion should be legally available in some circumstances" and so forth. 

  • Guest

    techwreck – I'm sorry too.  You obviously have strong convictions in this area and some of the clergy do not deserve your respect.  I will respect that and pray for you too every time I see any of your negative comments regarding our Clergy. 

    DTG and PTR

    For some people, Ignorance is bliss!  If they don't know it's a mortal sin.  It is not a mortal sin.  I think thats part of the point our brother techwreck is making. 

  • Guest

    PTR and Robert,

    I disagree with your understanding that the majority of voters are ignorant. Not with today's information highways. They are too vast, and while highly congested, they are navigable. Saying that someone has not heard the Church's position on abortion, contraception and your duty as a Catholic, could be likened to saying that someone has not heard the name Jesus.

    Go check the politics forums, where Catholic posters debate voting for a person who is a supporter of the culture of death, simply because of a probability of victory, or perceived wellness of the country.

    No, gentleman, there is a greater phenomena at work than ignorance. Possibly, an overinflated value of self, encoraged for all time by the master of confusion, lies and deception, is mysteriously still laboring in this world.

    In Christ, 

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    David – I never said the majority are ignorant. There are some that are ignorant there are some that know but choose not for follow.  They have ears but cannot hear. They can see but are blinded by the master of confusion. 

    You are correct that the information is out there, but some just trust the network news, CNN or some other major media source and that is where there is a big problem. That is what our worthy archbishop is writing about.

    There are some that trust their local clergy to help, but the clergy does not give them the truth.  That is what techwreck is talking about. 

    The Father of lies works in many ways to hit us from as many angles as he can. His lies and deception can be called mysterious, I think insidious is a better choice of words.

     

  • Guest

    Robert,

    Mysteriously should have been put in quotes as it was meant tongue in cheek…

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    I dare say most self-identifying "Catholics" do not think about being Catholic at all unless someone asks them their religious preference.

    Hence the huge difference between respondents to polls who say they are "Catholic" and those who say they attend Mass weekly.

    I say again – last cycle the DNC touted how pro-abortion Catholic pols get a higher mark on following Church teachings in their scorecard.

    If you gents honestly think the majority of self-identifying "Catholics" are actively pursuing their faith on politics forums and web sites and so forth, God bless you, but it is not so.

  • Guest

    PTR

    I don't think I ever said the majority were not ignorant either.  I try to ignore polls.  You cannot lend them much credibility. That is what the original article was about.  They tend to ask leading questions that get biased results. 

     I suppose, if I had to guess, I would say the majority of self-identifying "Catholics" that are polled are not actively pursuing their faith on political forums and web sites and so forth.  They are probably trusting the network news, CNN polls or some other major media source.  Hence, in my opinion, they are ignorant. 

    David I will agree to disagree with you now. Foot in mouth

     

  • Guest

    I think a great part of the problem lies in the, I believe, fact that many Catholics have bought the idea they can and must departmentalize their lives and separate their religious beliefs from their "real life."  That way, they can believe that how they vote in their "real lives" does not affect their Salvation in their religious lives.

    The father of lies is very insidious, indeed!

  • Guest

    PTR,

    You wrote, "I dare say most self-identifying "Catholics" do not think about being Catholic at all unless someone asks them their religious preference."

    Fine. Let's take Catholic out of the equation. Let's ask anyone of voting age, what religion is the major opponent of abortion? Let's follow that question up with, do you think that religion would support a candidate that was pro abortion?

    I am not overly excited about anything that comes out of the DNC or the media. Having said that, let me state that I never mentioned anything about self-identifying Catholics. Inadvertently, I mentioned that Catholics KNOW they shouldn't vote for someone who is part of the culture of death. The term being used here because it is understood in these fora. Outside, simply put, I would say that the two questions posted above, answered honestly, overwhelmingly would be Catholicism and no.

    So, no, I don't think self-identifying Catholics are pursuing their faith in anything, but I also don't think their stupid or ignoramus'.

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    Robert,

    No, you never said the majority are ignorant. You said, "to some, ignorance is bliss."

    What, then, would most be?

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    PTR,

    When I said check the politics forum…I meant the one here at CE

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    It seems we could agree with Archbishop Chaput that everyone should be wary when the media talks about the Catholic vote.

    God grant us that there would be such a thing in our country.

  • Guest

    Today at my Catholic Scripture Study, Fr Patrick Winslow said something that is relevant to this discussion.   He said we must be careful that our religious faith does not become merely an identity….Madonna has called herself Catholic, people who go to protestant churches (because they were raised Catholic) call themselves Catholic…..polls suggest more than 50% don't believe in Christs true presence in the Holy Eucharist, etc…… then they are not Catholic.   This is our religious faith, not an identity, and those not friendly to religious faith (e.g. much of the media) love to expose the hypocrisy of those who identify themselves as Catholic, but in truth, are not. 

  • Guest

    David

    If you have only 2 choices, I would define "Most" as more than half.

    How many Catholics that attend mass on a weekly basis actually read the Bishops Reflection Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship A Call to Political Responsibility issued last November?  How many do you think read it cover to cover?  All 44 pages of it.

    How many do you think just heard about it somewhere or worse heard the insidiously watered down version of it in the media and never read a word of the actual document.

    I remember recently talking to 5 of my good Catholic friends about it and Two of them read a few pages and have not had the time to finish it. One said he heard of it on TV and two remember Father talking about it at mass, but have not read it.

    I'm not saying these results are accurate in any way, but if they were,   1 out of 6 is not even close to a majority. 

     

  • Guest

    Robert,

    Just for the principle of the matter, "mysteriously" described the overinflated value of self, not Satan"

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me… Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    Yes, I agree with the article.

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    Robert,

    You misunderstand my question. You said "some" are blissfully ignorant. If that is your belief, what, then, are most, or the rest? Are they stupid, imbesols, uneducated, etc.?

    To this discussion, I am not trying to portray Catholics in one light or another. I also am not considering the efficacy of the documents produced by Bishops, the Magesterium or the Pope. What I am trying to convey is that there is a general knowledge , albeit latent, among all voters, religious and secular alike, that the Catholic Church abhors abortion and censures those who support it.

    I will agree with the fact that most catholics are catechized by the media regarding most Church teachings or documents that come forth from Her, but not even the media can spin the Catholic Church into a contraception accepting, abortion advocating community. Nor, in my humble opinion, do they want to. 

    Finally, do you consider it necessary that a Catholic be required to read all documents issued by the the Bishops? You wrote, "…talking to 5 of my good Catholic friends." Was the "good" in referring to your friends or their status as Catholics? If it was that they are good friends, great. If it meant that they were good Catholics, can that be possible by their admitted deficiency?   

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    David

    I can agree that our disagreement was a misunderstanding on my part.  My apologies!

  • Guest

    David, I might have backed away too quickly because I didn’t want to take the time to answer all your questions. 

     

    You are right that pride and an over inflated value of self is part of the problem and there is some mystery in that. And, no you don’t have to read all the docs the church produces.

     

    If I understand this correctly, our disagreement is if the majority of people are ignorant or not.  If my dictionary reads ‘Ignorant = Lacking knowledge or uninformed and Latent = potential, but not evident, undeveloped.  

     

    Do you agree that a “latent general knowledge” of the church’s teachings is not ignorance?  If you know the church teaches something is wrong, but do not know the details and why?  Whether you are Catholic or not are you truly informed and educated?  Do you have enough facts to make an educated decision?

     

    Or am I misunderstanding you again?

  • Guest

    Robert,

    Hmmmm…

    Let me say that I enjoy fruitful conversation in these forums. It is not my intent to engage in "disagreements", but to merely state an opinion, whether it be to an article or a post. After stating my opinion, I expect, and, hopefully, encourage a response.

    Semantics aside, for a moment, you responded to me that you did not say the majority are ignorant, and, you responded to PTR that you never said they weren't either.

    ???

    To semantics, I have a dictionary that defines latent, used as an adjective describing knowledge, to mean: present and capable of becoming though not now visible, obvious, active, or symptomatic.

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me… Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    David

    Disagreements are usually misunderstandings that are not yet clarified. I too enjoy thought provoking ideas and we have both expressed opinions that, after more thought, are reconsidered.

    I did get the impression that our misunderstanding was in our use of the word "ignorant" not really in our use of the word "latent"???

    Like my old scoutmaster used to say . . . The obvious is only obvious until it is known to be obvious.

    God Bless you! 

     

     

  • Guest

    Robert,

    Do you know what an isosceles triangle is? How about Pythagorean theorem? An understanding of Pi? Could it be argued that every 5th grader is aware of these?

    I contend in my statement, to be perfectly obvious, that every voter, if polled, would know that the Catholic Church is against abortion and that every voter, armed with that knowledge, should ascertain that a Catholic should not vote for anyone who supports abortion.

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    By the way . . . I talked to 2 of my previously mentioned good friends that are Catholic and I see them at church most every week.  They have both asked me to send them the 44 page PDF file I downloaded from the UCCB website.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Guest

    Yes! Yes! Yes! and anything can be argued!

     I answered your simple yes or no questions!  Are you going to answer mine? 

  • Guest

    Robert,

    Do you agree that a “latent general knowledge” of the church’s teachings is not ignorance? 

    yes

    If you know the church teaches something is wrong, but do not know the details and why? 

    I am going to remove the question mark and join it to this sentence

    Whether you are Catholic or not are you truly informed and educated?

    Whereas you may not be currently informed, my contention is that you have been educated, but, due to various obstacles, the knowledge has been supressed.

    Do you have enough facts to make an educated decision?

    Murder is wrong. Their is life in the womb. Abortion ends that life. A fifth grader knows this. You need to be 18 to vote, what happens in between. Life or death, the blessing or the curse. 

    OK?

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    I teach a 7th grade CCD and have to go now to do just that, but I have 7th grade students that did not know the meaning of the word abortion. 

    It appears you contend that there is no pure ignorance among those that vote in this country.  That may be so, but highly unlikely and difficult to prove.  

  • Guest

    Robert,

    Around the country, Planned Parenthood distributes its prized educational resource book, It's Perfectly Normal. They tout its usefullness for fifth grade and up. It is quite a gem.

    I never said there is no pure ignorance among voters. I contend the majority know abortion is wrong. I contend this for many reasons, but since you are an educator of theology, allow me to make reference to our Creator, who has put His indelible mark on all of us, Gentile, Jew and Christian. His voice echos in our soul, "do this, don't do that". Most, in the innocence of their youth, listen to His voice and understand. Over time, He can be drowned out by the materialistic world, but by His own mercy, He never stops calling, always seeking to bring back the lost sheep.

    Yes, their are woefully ignorant people in this world, but for every one of them, there is three or four self-centered, self righteous, self serving, mammon loving individuals. People who have been taught what abortion is and insist for their own purposes that it is not a baby, a child, and therefore can not be murder. Show a fifth grader a fetus and they will say, "look at the baby daddy." I do not call these people ignorant. I call them pro choice, pro purse strings voters and lukewarm fence sitters that refuse to take action. I know them because I was one of them.

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    I have never seen the PP resource book you mention and will ask my son if he has seen or heard of it.  He is in 5th grade.  I agree with your last 2 paragraphs and will contend the same with this exception.

    I have a problem with using the common term "Pro-Choice."  I cannot understand how anyone can say they are for something that denies the same to others.  Fr. Pavone says that most people that have abortions have them because they feel they have "no choice."  Also, when making that "choice" they deny the  fundamental "choice" of the child to have life.  I call them ignorant because I was one of them too. I feel like I was pretty ignorant back then.

  • Guest

    Robert,

    My dictionary describes ignorant as being without knowledge, education or awareness. I wrote an opinion letter a few years back that I titled, An Ignoramus No More, reflecting back, although I was not as aware of all the different facets of the abortion "issue", I was in no way unkowledgeable, uneducated or unaware. For me, claiming such was a plea bargain with my conscience that was thrown out on appeal.

    As to understanding "choice", just open up your Bible and turn a few pages to the story of Cain and Abel…

    Also, St Thomas Aquinas says that we must follow our conscience, even if it is wrong. Today, or yesterday to be precise, Archbishop Chaput discusses a properly formed conscience. Therein may lie the key to your understanding those that would deny what they are in pursuit of.

    I, for one, took a certain pleasure in the pro choice communities outcry at the use of the term "partial birth abortion". To them it implied something they knew most people would be uncomfortable with. Unfortunately, for them, words mean something and the procedure is exactly what it is called. I often wonder how it strikes people when they learn that the alternative procedure is to rip the baby to pieces in the womb and then extract the remnants. While partial birth abortion is outlawed, this procedure is not. Maybe we should start a trend of calling them "Remnant Rending Wrest Doctors", "Fetus Fighters", "Blastocyst Annihilators" or "Embryo Endangerers".

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    So, it appears our misunderstanding was over how we define the word ignorant. 

     I have no problem understanding the word "choice" any 2 year old understands that.  The problem is with the commonly used term of "Pro-Choice" and what it stands for.

     

     

     

     

  • Guest

    Robert,

    That, and your contention that you never said most were ignorant and/or you never said most were not. You still have not answered what you think most are. Most, meaning voters that support candidates that support the culture of death.

    I also don't sense you fully grasp my assertion of latent knowledge as it pertains to what you learn in your youth, whether it be mathematics or moral precepts.

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

  • Guest

    If we use your definition of ignorant, most people are not ignorant.  If we use my definition, most are ignorant.  My definition of ignorant being that it exists if there is some important and necessary part of knowledge that is needed to make a truly educated and accurate decision. And that knowledge is apparently oblivious to the person.  

    Many people want to know "why" the Church teaches something before they can make the decision to follow it as the gospel truth.  Example, The Church teaches, fornication or adultery is wrong! Don't do it!  We have the 6th and 9th commandments.  Many people know this as latent general knowledge, but are not fully informed with the teachings in the Theology of the Body.  Hence, we have sexual promiscuity running rampant in the world today.

     

  • Guest

    Just so you don't have to say it. I will openly admit I an ignorant about many things.  For example, I have a latent general knowledge about an isosceles triangle, the Pythagorean theorem, and a understanding of Pi.  I could not teach this knowledge to others or discuss them intelligently.  So please, keep the discussion to subjects in morality.

  • Guest

    To answer what "most are" . . . I could say to some degree or another, they all have ignorance, but your description describes them more accuratly.  Pride is a powerful weapon in the arsenal of the enemy.  Much more powerful than ignorance.

    I agree that all have the moral law written on their hearts by god.  an overwhelming majority have heard the Catholic Church denounces abortion as wrong.  I agree they have latent knowledge that catholic voters should not support these pro life candidates.  

    Here are a couple examples that you may want to consider when it comes to your assertion of latent knowledge as it pertains to what you learn in your youth.

    One is in your prior example that many people accepted that a baby in the womb wasn't a baby or alive. It was just a bit of bad tissue they removed or a zygote is the term I think they used. We all knew the 5th commandment, but many bought into the lie. A bit of knowledge eluded many people. It was not obvious until ultra sound came along and shot that lie to hell. They were lacking knowledge that the baby was a baby. They did not listen to what the church said about it. Many did not know. They (myself included) were ignorant. I was not even Catholic at the time.  If you know the 5th commandment but you do not know you are breaking it when you are breaking it.  Do you even have latent knowledge that abortion is wrong?  Back in those days, I dare say few knew the church teaching on the issue.

    You can say that one does not work in current events.

     

    What about this one.  I work for a local social services agency in my area.  I can't talk about religion with them, but I can talk politics.  I have heard people tell me that they vote for every democrat on the ballot because they know demos will tax the rich and give more money to the poor.  They also vote for all propositions that spend more money.  Yet they vote for them anyway out of greed.  They don't care about what the demos or props stand for on abortion they say the government says it's legal so there is nothing wrong with abortion.  Is that ignorance or Pride?  Probably a lot of both.

    Here is some ignorance for you and there is a lot of it.

    They hear the Catholic Church is against abortion but they don't associate any credibility to it because they belong to another faith community and the leaders of their faith community openly denounce catholics as heretics.  Then their church leaders say abortion is OK.  As a former Mormon, I can say there is a lot of this going on.

     

     

     

  • Guest

    For the record, I was not avoiding these questions.  Due to my class last night, I had very little time for this discussion.  Did I miss (or misunderstand) any thing? 

  • Guest

    I think we covered this subject. Thought provoking, to say the least. Thanks. I'll see you in the next discussion.

    In Christ,

    There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me…

    Remember, the Sun is always shining!

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