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1:29 pm
May 3, 2009
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jenlev
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| Member | posts 58 |
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Many people have a misunderstanding about what Catholics believe when it comes to saints. Has anyone ever confronted you saying you worship saints not Jesus. How did you respond to this? This can be tricky because to the casual observer with our many status prayer cards and candles it is easy to understand why they might think this. How do you respond to those kinds of questions?
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9:49 pm
May 3, 2009
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AlvinaL
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Jenlev,
Thanks for your good question. As a cradle Catholic I never felt that the saints were competing with Jesus Christ. Catholics don’t worship Mary and the saints, we honor them. Mary’s role is to bring us closer to Jesus.
In a similar way, we have fond memories of family loved ones who have died. We ask them to pray for us and to help us in our journey on earth. They become our intercessors.
The church counts among her members the Virgin Mary and numerous saints who are models and intercessors. Those who die in the grace of God and have no need of further purification are gathered around Jesus and Mary, the angels and the saints. Mary and the saints are our models of prayer. They live in a communion of love with the Most Blessed Trinity and they intercede for us. Mary and the saints are “cheer leaders” for us struggling earthlings (the Church Militant). They are eager and waiting to aid our call for help.
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10:18 am
May 4, 2009
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Warren Jewell
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I myself have no doubt that in matters small and large, praying with the saints to our Lord, Jesus Christ, has facilitated and expedited numbers of answers to prayer. Sometimes, that answer was a blunt "No!", but I have been clever enough to generally seek and ask for His will, not my own whims.
And, it is the saints themselves who demonstrate that praying for one's own will is not futile but understandable; however, it is just not 'best'. To take to the saints' ways of going to God, one is not only 'hat in hand' but in humility to know "HE knows best and I do not – HE is God and I am not"
Saints to this very day not only believe the Gospel, they live it. Not only do they live it, they live it with arrays of other folk who do not and/or will not live the Gospel fully, and so the saints are often beleaguered by opposition. In living the Gospel, following Christ with their own crosses, every step the saints took and still take with Christ becomes a missionary moment, a homily conceived in prayerful grace and joy, wearing their hearts on their sleeves marked with the Cross and thrilled by lives energized by hope of the Resurrection.
And, how others cannot fathom our reverence for saints is amazing. No matter their faith group or sect, do they not revere saintly souls among whom they live? Do they think such reverence stops at the graveyard? If sainthood means anything to us left in militant Christianity, it also means that our now gone sainted contemporaries just may be able to help us still on our journey Home. Firstly, they found that narrow path; plus, after all, they can attest for us directly to our Lord, Himself. They can pray directly to Him for the graces we need to grow in sainthood and join them before the Throne some ‘day’ when days have ended.
Saints are among the treasures of the Church. To ignore them is to think to stop breathing God’s good air, and quit drinking God’s refreshing waters. They were like us, and blossomed and grew. They were sinners who permitted Christ to overcome sin in them and save them.
Long live Christ the King in His saints! Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints!
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10:12 pm
May 4, 2009
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Tarheel
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As a convert to the faith myself I had trouble with "prayers to the saints" I took it too literally. It even stood in the way, to a degree, of my understanding of our blessed Mother and her role in our daily lives. It was not until I fully grasped what honoring them really meant was I able to get over this stumbling block. Bear with me here I as relate my experience with saints.
For many years I have suffered with migraine headaches. Each trip to the doctor was another type of medication it seemed. But when I started teaching CCD/Sunday School 8 years ago I got in the mail some very nice saints card. They sent a sample pack with several saints in them. Now this was a primo set. Each was notebook size with lots of information. I looked at each and filed them away near the computer. One night as I was goofing off on the computer and waiting for a game to start I by chance picked up the saints cards and focused in on the one for St Teresa de Avila. It said there she was the patron saint of headache sufferers. Interesting I thought. I wonder if she wants one of my migraines. Instead of rat-holing it away I simply laid it down on the desk next to me. As seemed to be normal then in a few days I had another blinding, rip my head apart migraine. I was sick of taking drugs so I went in to the living room to watch late night TV so as not to disturb my wife. For some reason and I had never done this in the past. I switched to the TV to EWTN. They had a movie on about St Teresa de Avila. I watched that movie (even though it was dubbed) very intently. The life of that dear woman amazed me. Then I remembered the saint card. I went back to my desk and read the card more closely. She did have migraines like mine but survived them without the gifts of modern medicine I had. I was humbled. So I then turned off all the lights sat in my chair and asked St Teresa to "pray for me" to Our Lord to help me survive this headache I had. My prayer was as simple as that. In a matter of minutes my headache was gone! Then I understood how we honor the saints and our Blessed Mother by asking them to pray for us. Are they not much closer to the Lord than us? What son in the world doesn't listen to his mother? How foolish was I to think that Jesus would not listen to his Mother and be pleased that I would honor His mother with my love and respect.
Do you not ask others to pray for you? Asking a saint to pray for you' by us asking for their intercession is no different than me asking you, warren, or Alvina to pray for me. It is just that the saints havea much closer relationship with Jesus. Were not the saints "shepherds of his flock" here on earth. It only makes sense that Christ will listen to them very intently. So why not ask for their help.
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6:34 am
May 5, 2009
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Warren Jewell
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Well said, Tarheel! Your example proves the pudding.
The saints have carried the banner, fought the good fight, run the race to its holy end – how can we ignore their powerful sanctity now glorified before our Lord? These are HIS heroes, come Home to join in Him love and joy and peace and PRAYERFULNESS forever.
And, as each saint has his grand story behind him, even if often hagiographic, jenlev and Ken 'have chosen the better portion' to study these magnificent champions of our Faith. The Church has done a wonderful service to us, that canonization takes us into the saints' eternal lives beyond their temporal lives – of the likes of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, and John Paul the Great, and Fr. Michael McGivney of Knights of Columbus fame. And, thus are we reminded freshly to take up our cross as our banner, fight the good fight against sin, temptation, Satan and evil, and run on course to triumphant success.
Why, someday, I hope to sit before a debate between G.K.Chesterton and Mark Shea, where there will be little contention but some of the finest 'holy humor' we'll ever witness. There won't be dry eye in the house for laughter unto tears. I know that my sides will ache, and I'll love every heavenly non-minute minute of it. We'll all take away some choice reflections toward our perfection, and have witnessed Jesus Christ in jolly good spirits to ask just the right questions to have these two grand writers of His offer yet more hilarious lessons.
I . CAN'T . WAIT!
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9:22 am
May 5, 2009
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Tarheel
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| Member | posts 84 |
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That would be a wonderful conversation to witness. But I would also like see round table of these two fine gentleman accompanied by Father Mitch Pacwa, Scott Hahn, Peter Krefft, and Steven Ray.
I know you can't wait warren but there are those of us here that would miss your comments and insights. I added your name to the prayer list at my parish here in Mobile AL. Here is our church website http://www.corpuschristiparish.com/ feel free to visit.
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11:27 pm
May 5, 2009
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Warren Jewell
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Post edited 4:51 am – May 6, 2009 by Warren Jewell
With Augustine and Aquinas coaching BOTH teams. WHOO-HOO!
Talk about the fire and might of the Spirit of truth.
Took a long look at Corpus Christi Parish, Mobile, Alabama. I am green with envy. I want a copy of your sanctuary crucifix in my mansion in heaven. Your mosaic would befit my 'banquet' room, where Mass would be said by any and every passing priest.
Thank you for your prayers and those of your fellow parishioners. "[SMACK!]" I have never thought to add my own name to our parish prayer roster. Duh!
Speaking of parish good works, the lady lay minister who brings me Sunday Communion will instead pick me up and take me to Mass on Sundays! She is either an extraordinary Communion minister or a lector, every Sunday, different Mass times. Good News, indeed! I miss Mass. Don't usually have a reliable ride thence and back, so bless Roxane Ditta's Christian heart. And, she is but a convert of a few years, herself. Remember her and other servants of Christ in your prayers.
Por la Cinco de Mayo – Viva Cristo Rey!
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5:27 am
May 7, 2009
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jenlev
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| Member | posts 58 |
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The Catholic belief in saints has been a stumbling-block to many a convert. It seems to me that there is simply a misunderstanding as to what that belief is. Saints are not “little gods” they are our brethren who made it to heaven before we did and are in a good position to intercede in prayer on our behalf. That is not to say some people even those in the catholic faith themselves act as though they believe more in the saint than they do in Jesus but it is our job I believe as good Catholics to educate fellow believers not to condemn them for there misunderstanding of church teaching.
Protestants point to the Bible and say there’s nothing in the Bible about saints but there is in fact plenty of biblical evidence. The phrase communion of saints refers to the bond of unity among all believers, both living and dead, who are committed followers of Christ.
1 John 3:1 we are a family
Roman 8:17 talks about the glory of the after life
2 Peter 1:4 we are part of the divine nature.
This communion of saints is known to Catholics as the mystical Body of Christ. We are joined in a supernatural union as members of Christ’s own body and thus as members of one another. Each of us participates in the divine life of Christ Himself.
John 15:3-5 gives us the image of the vine and the branches. Because we are connected as branches to Christ the vine we are also connected to each other.
1 Corinthians 12: 12-27 talks about the unity of the body of God and how the parts should be concerned for each other, as well as Romans 12:4-16.
Romans 8: 35 – 39 death can not separate us.
Romans 12:10 1 Thessalonians 511, and Galatians 6:2 we are bond by love.
Revelations 5:8 saints offer prayers that are burned on the incense.
God is the beginning and the end He does not live in time like we do. As we often see death as an ending God does not see it that way. To Him it is the next phase. So doesn’t it make since that if we live forever in heaven that we can all pray for each other. Even after what we on Earth view as death.
Most of this information was taken from Beginning Apologetics by Father Frank Chacon and Jim Burnham.
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6:06 pm
May 7, 2009
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Paul
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Post edited 11:09 pm – May 7, 2009 by Paul
And also Heb 12.1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,…
22] But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
[23] and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
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7:42 am
May 8, 2009
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Tarheel
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| Member | posts 84 |
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It is wonderful to see these scripture passages. I have found a wonderful book that is a great reference tool . It is "What Does Scripture Say? A Biblical Index to Help Explain the Catholic Faith" It was composed by Tom Balboa and Joseph C. Bonadiman. You can from the Catholic Society of Evangelists for a very small donation. Their web site is http://www.catholic-soe.org
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