Gskineke, I don’t doubt that some of the Hadiths paint an even worse picture. [I've been told, for instance, that female genital mutilation is not mentioned in the Koran, but it is in one of the lesser Hadiths.] But then, some of the Pseudepigraphia of Christian tradition are not recommended reading either–stories of children being turned into animals by Jesus, for instance. Discernment is needed in this as in many other things.

I think it is significant that many official Muslim messages and documents begin with the invocation, “In the name of Allah, the merciful, …” There are, as you say, many schools of thought in Islam and I would like to know if there is a reasonably influential one which stresses the merciful aspects of Islam and with which we may be able to find real common ground.

The best source I found is http://www.answering-islam.org

and

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Do NOT say ‘peace be upon him’ regarding muhammed, who is a FALSE prophet! Muhammed was given to fits, he was a pedophile, even according to their own Hadiths, the false prophet had relations with a 9 yr old child! And are we to conclude that the Blessed ArchAngel Gabriel actually appeared to him?

It would be better actually that allah isn’t God because if ‘Allah’ is God, that makes islam is even more demonic and worse then I originally thought. Islam completely perverts and distorts the image of God, in islam, is the antithesis of all who and what God truly is: Which is love and mercy itself.

The God of islam would NEVER become one of Us, God with us, and hang on the cross for mere humans.

Devotion is not proof of the truth of the teaching.Cults members often display great devotion. Muslims are under a demonic ‘spell’ no different then those who were sucked in by Jim Jones. They were very devout too.

The one thing satan always wanted is to be worshiped as God or at least completely distort the vision of God that people will have, causing them to fear God more then love him.Satan is achieving this brilliantly through islam. If there is any religion that is obviously demonically inspired, it is islam. Have any of you ever seen the kabah? The black rock they kiss? That thing gives me the chills.

You see, I can easily see a day when Christians in this country will be threatened with death if they do not renounce the ONE true God. If you don’t understand that they do not worship the one true God, then you can not see this danger, nor will you understand for what they are threatening you for. You are still going to believe that reason will win them over. It will not. Only a miracle from God. And so far, the enemy of souls has succeeded in convincing Christians that they don’t need to pray and spiritually fight for the souls of muslims.

“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” Quran 5:73,

“They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah’s is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things,” (Quran 5:17

I have read enough to know that the Holy Spirit had NOTHING to do with islam and daily I pray that God will rebuke the spirit of islam and give muslims the grace of conversion and freedom from the bondage of islam.

The more I learn the more I appreciate Christians from the Holy land, that their families and ancestors were able to resist and survive under dhimmitude is amazing.

May God spare us and save all those under the bondage of islam.
Madeline

1. Cooky’s synopsis is excellent. I’m so glad it was presented;

2. While there is no “magisterium” in Islam, there are clerics and their schools of thought which interpret the Koran. Added to this there are the ahadith, which are sayings of and anecdotes about the prophet Muhammed. Rather than helping, they only paint the picture worse (i.e. Muhammed went past a group of women and told them that hell was mostly full of women. What do we do with that?) The greatest summary/application of practical Islam is shari’a which is horrific – especially for women, but ultimately it shreds all legitimate human dignity.

3. Whether God = Allah, yes, we could say that Muslims simply misunderstand the proper God, but in that sense so did the Mexicans. To have honoured Quetzalcoatl was also a “misunderstanding” by that standard, but the conquistadors didn’t respond with dialogue about commonalities. If you say, “Ah, but Muhammed incorporated Judeo/Christian ideas,” then what do you do with the fact that he rejects their view of God completely? Sure he refers to Abraham, Moses and Jesus, but they were all good Muslims worshiping Allah and the each story is changed and corrupted. (Ishmael was the son whom Abraham took to sacrifice, and all the characters lived in Mecca.) If Allah is the only prophet we can use to understand Allah, then “Allah,” as a concept, is a different God. When I say different God, I’m using the semantics from Scripture: “You shall not have false Gods,” and “If someone were to preach a Gospel different than this one, let him be anathema.” Anathema, to me, doesn’t mean sifting for shared views over coffee (and ardent Muslims would reciprocate that outlook).

4. Should we dialogue with Muslims? Perhaps, but I believe a better path is to evangelise Muslims. If you read the testimonies of those who have rejected Islam, the predominant factor is that they weren’t really familiar with the Koran, and when they did read it they were horrified and left. The point about submission is that you are not required to understand to submit. In fact understanding is superfluous – which is why Allah is not worthy of human respect. That is why slavery is a legitimate concept in Islam (still), despite the fact that other faiths have come to see it as an intrinsic evil. The Vatican has my respect, but this is not a question of faith and morals. The Vatican is painfully aware that the Christians in Muslim lands are being harassed and killed, their churches torched or smashed. There is a political question that has to drive the Church’s response, but that is not my responsibility.

5. We will soon come to see the limits of religious liberty if we tolerate the intolerable. If people could legitimately shun South Africa for apartheid, and if searing epithets to this day are “nazi” and “bigot,” then it shows that some things should not be tolerated. We are called to discern spirits and if we don’t show some careful discernment here, we will lose our ability to worship freely.

I liked you explanation, but also I look to Rome. The Popes have long indicated that we (Muslims, Jews, and Christians) all worship the same God Almighty, and quite frankly that (i.e. that the Pope says so) is quite good enough for me.

Thus God is Allah.

Muslims believe that there is no God, but God and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is His prophet. Christians and Jews also believe in God, who is most merciful, most just, the creator and Lord of all.

When I was working in Kuwait I was very impressed by the devotion of ordinary Muslims.

We have the fullness of truth, they do not, but they believe in God and worship Him.

I read (http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=253&grupo=Think%20%20Learn&canal=Islam%20Facts):

Pope Favors Dialogue with Islam
VATICAN CITY – In his response to the letter sent by 138 Muslim scholars, Benedict XVI says he believes in “sincere and frank dialogue” with Islam.

Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the press office of the Holy See, said this in the most recent edition of the Vatican Television weekly program “Octava Dies,” commenting on the Pope’s mid-November response to the October letter sent by Muslim scholars calling for dialogue between Christianity and Islam.

He continued: “It was an important letter that highlighted the central place of love of God and neighbor in the Quran and the Hebrew and Christian Bible, and which had the clear intention of promoting the common commitment to peace in the entire world on the basis of a profound reciprocal understanding.

“The Pope’s response reminds us that we should not underrate the differences, but it also highlights above all that which unites; he encourages respect and knowledge of each other, and effective recognition of the dignity of every human person; he shows sincere confidence in a way of growing acceptance which is promising for the promotion of justice and peace.”

“…but in Islam it ends there as well — for a Muslim is essentially alone…”

I am sure I will not do this justice, but I will try.

I recall reading (I think it was Chesterton) where the author was wondering about the Trinity and recalled that, as with how God said of Adam “It is not good for Man to be alone”. And he went further with this; so when we consider the Mohammendan notion of a stern and solitary God who blows out of the hot desert all powerful and unapproachable, as oppossed God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that perhaps it is not good for God to be so alone either.

Thanks again -

If the cut-throat Mohammed is Allah’s greatest prophet then what kind of a God are we talking about? Islam was spread by murder Dom not martyrdom. Fatwa’s are issued against people making comments like ours. They’re carried out with no objections from the best of the Mohammedans.

There’s an image out there of St. Claire with her foot on a turbaned man. Very close to an image that we’re all familiar with. Cooky was suggestive of that image.

I hope you don’t mind living in Sweden as a knock-out blonde along with
Salmon Rushdie who also suggested the same.