Comments on: A Time to be Heard

By: et1jake

et1jake — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:57:07 +0000

Mary Kochan says:
November 19th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

“Actually, Luther did not go wrong in criticizing sale of indulgences. He went wrong in denying the doctrine of indulgences. Not the same thing.”

True for the indulgences, but Luther went wrong on WAY more than that issue.

“We don’t go wrong in criticizing the use of our donated funds for abortion and other evil things. We would go wrong, if, for example, we were to deny that the Church was to be engaged in the corporal works of mercy.”

Quite right and correctly pointed out, but I don’t think there is an issue with the performance of corporal works of mercy. I do see an issue with a large bureaucracy created to do these corporal works. It parallels the many government programs, which may have had good intentions, but become so large that they end up misguided and inefficient.
We can’t have the faithful become complacent to the misuse of their donations; nor can we have them become so sciddish and distrustful that they will start to withhold donations from even the most worthy of causes. CCHD needs to clean its act up or the bishops risk alienating the faithful. I feel part of the problem with CCHD is that it looks for the most POLITICALLY CORRECT organizations to give to, instead of the most needy ones.

By: jiminycricket

jiminycricket — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:49:01 +0000

It is perfectly legitimate to rebuke and confront the bishops on ACTIONS that are in conflict with our faith, including the supporting (direct or indirect) of things like abortion, homosexuality, artificial contraception, etc., just like Paul rebuked Peter for his actions.

My pastor has “canceled” the CCHD collection at our parish.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, not the CCHD (this year).

Lest we forget, let us continue in prayer for the bishops. They need to be strengthened through our prayers. May the CCHD be reformed

By: Robert Struble, Jr.

Robert Struble, Jr. — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:16:01 +0000

What does St. Paul say here? “Test all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I wonder what the Apostle would say about misusing Church funds? Or about accusing Catholics of disloyalty because they scrutinize how our donations get spent?

By: Mary S.

Mary S. — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:00:29 +0000

Thanks to Mark & Mary for pointing out the difference between matters of faith & morals ( which are the legitimate authority of our bishops IF they are in union with the magisterium of the Church) and something like spending our money for groups that don’t uphold the teachings of the Church.( That is a matter of the judgment of the bishops & in this case it appears that the evidence is rather strong that they have erred). We will have to give an accounting to the Lord for each thought, word, vote, & penny spent. We have a responsibility to be good stewards of our money which means we need to decide whether to contribute to groups that undermine the teachings of the Church or to other groups which build the Kingdom. We plan to boycott the CCHD & give our money to pro-life, pro-family groups.

By: Mark Armstrong

Mark Armstrong — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:11:26 +0000

Noel, your statement , “when I decide bishops are in error and going against the teachings of Jesus Christ, should I speak up? Should I also start my own Church?” misses the point entirely.

The USCCB on matters concerning the CCHD are not speaking about a matter of faith. In fact it is quite the opposite. (see my earlier post on this). Many Catholics are concerned about the inherent evil some of these organizations that the CCHD gives our money to. That’s the issue. It is not doctrinal. We don’t want to start our own Church, we want our Church to follow its own teachings. To be pure and free from the taint of sin.

Another historical example that might be useful for you to consider, though, would be this…what would you do if all the Bishops in the United States decided to leave Rome and demanded that all American Catholics follow with them or face death? That is what happened in the 16th Century in England. Blind obedience in the face of certain evil is not a good thing either. Had lay Catholics in England revolted and demanded their Church not leave them, we would not have had the Anglican split either. It goes both ways.

By: Mary Kochan

Mary Kochan — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:08:51 +0000

Actually, Luther did not go wrong in criticizing sale of indulgences. He went wrong in denying the doctrine of indulgences. Not the same thing.

We don’t go wrong in criticizing the use of our donated funds for abortion and other evil things. We would go wrong, if, for example, we were to deny that the Church was to be engaged in the corporal works of mercy.

So let’s not get confused.

And yes, a lot of CATHOLICS who STAYED CATHOLIC did join Martin Luther’s criticism of the sale of indulgences. They brought about the Catholic Reformation — which involved a LOT of criticism of what the bishops were doing and demanded reform.

By: noelfitz

noelfitz — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:43:32 +0000

Rakeys,
You wrote:
“We do need to speak up against our Bishops when they are going against the teachings of Jesus Christ. I wish someone in addition to, and other than, Martin Luther would have spoken to the Bishop in Germany that was selling indulgences and convinced him that it violated Christ’s teachings.”

This sounds interesting. Are you suggesting that when I decide bishops are in error and going against the teaching of Jesus Christ, I should speak up? Should I also start my own Church?

Did you really thunk that others should have joined Martin Luther when he spoke up? Quite a few did.

By: et1jake

et1jake — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:15:25 +0000

It most certainly is proper to challeng the bishops on this issue. It is not only the right of most of the faithful, but their responsibility as well. The church doesn’t like to teach this to the soon to be confirmed anymore; but confirmation just doesn’t endow us with gifts from the Holy Spirit. It places both the honor and burden on us a “Defenders of the Faith” (Fidei Defensor).
Most look upon this as defending the Church from external attacks from society, media, and other religions, bust the most difficult responsibility is defending the Church from within. While external attackers of our faith have most assuredly cause great damage to our faith, especially in terms of torture and death; historically the faith grew stronger and more united during those times. The internal attackers, however, destroyed souls causing division and loss of faith. Who were Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli before they were heretics? They were Roman Catholic priests. Defending the faith from within – the most important, most difficult, and most treacherous task for the “Fidei Defensor “.

By: PrairieHawk

PrairieHawk — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:06:19 +0000

I would say, obey the bishops and trust God with the outcome. Publicizing what the CCHD is up to and charitably pointing out to the Bishops that they may be making a mistake is neither disloyal nor disobedient. But in the end, it is their judgment that matters most. I have disagreed with my pastor in the past, for example, and he has gone on and done things his way in spite of it. But I find peace in knowing that God’s will has been done through his ordained representative and the matter is out of my hands. Sometimes all we can do is quietly speak up and then let the issue go.

By: rakeys

rakeys — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:46:59 +0000

The CCHD is attempting to promote social justice. Many of these organizations do good deeds. However. the Bishops need to look closer into the people donating the money to insure that they are not funding abortion or other evils.
We do need to speak up against our Bishops when they are going against the teachings of Jesus Christ. I wish somenone in addition to, and other than, Martin Luther would have spoken to the Bishop in Germany that was selling indulgences and convinced him that it violated Christ’s teachings.