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	<title>Comments on: They Don’t Know Anything!</title>
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		<title>By: Robert Struble, Jr.</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-44012</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Struble, Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-44012</guid>
		<description>In teaching social studies, factual writing, and religion in a Catholic school, I found controversy and debate to be the best way to interest students in their religion.  There are a number of ways to involve students in a simulated defense of their religion.  Three that generated spirited writings or discussions in my classes were these:

1. Find a non-blasphemous article that challenges their faith, and assign them a one page essay summarizing the main points, taking a position, and defending that position.  If they support the author&#039;s heretical views, be sure to take time in correcting papers to give good written responses; but avoid grading a student down for doctrinal, as opposed to stylistic, errors.  The idea is to encourage thought, gently correct departures from r/c teaching on faith and morals, while grading them for the literary quality of their essay.

2. When some inquisitive and confident student challenges you – the teacher – on some point of faith; entertain that student with a Socratic sort of interchange.  The class invariably gives the matter rapt attention, simply for the pleasure of seeing the teacher challenged.  Cheerfully encourage the student, but make sure you can outsmart and out debate him/her, otherwise the effect could be detrimental – to the faith of your &quot;opponent&quot; as well as others in the class.

3.  Read a selection from the religion textbook in class.  In discussing the passage, play the devil’s advocate yourself.  Identify yourself as resembling some anti-Catholic school teacher they might conceivably have in the future.  (Under no circumstances select a student to play devil’s advocate on a religious question).  Give students participation points for each occasion when they raise their hand and articulate a defense of the r/c position on the particular question.  Don’t rebuke anyone for a well-meaning errors or doctrinal blunders, but reward everyone who attempts a defense of the faith against the anti-Catholic view.  Encourage students who correct each other’s opinions kindly as regards points of faith and morals expressed in class discussion.

During 13 years of teaching 8th grade religion in a Catholic school found the foregoing pedagogical methods to work quite effectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In teaching social studies, factual writing, and religion in a Catholic school, I found controversy and debate to be the best way to interest students in their religion.  There are a number of ways to involve students in a simulated defense of their religion.  Three that generated spirited writings or discussions in my classes were these:</p>
<p>1. Find a non-blasphemous article that challenges their faith, and assign them a one page essay summarizing the main points, taking a position, and defending that position.  If they support the author&#8217;s heretical views, be sure to take time in correcting papers to give good written responses; but avoid grading a student down for doctrinal, as opposed to stylistic, errors.  The idea is to encourage thought, gently correct departures from r/c teaching on faith and morals, while grading them for the literary quality of their essay.</p>
<p>2. When some inquisitive and confident student challenges you – the teacher – on some point of faith; entertain that student with a Socratic sort of interchange.  The class invariably gives the matter rapt attention, simply for the pleasure of seeing the teacher challenged.  Cheerfully encourage the student, but make sure you can outsmart and out debate him/her, otherwise the effect could be detrimental – to the faith of your &#8220;opponent&#8221; as well as others in the class.</p>
<p>3.  Read a selection from the religion textbook in class.  In discussing the passage, play the devil’s advocate yourself.  Identify yourself as resembling some anti-Catholic school teacher they might conceivably have in the future.  (Under no circumstances select a student to play devil’s advocate on a religious question).  Give students participation points for each occasion when they raise their hand and articulate a defense of the r/c position on the particular question.  Don’t rebuke anyone for a well-meaning errors or doctrinal blunders, but reward everyone who attempts a defense of the faith against the anti-Catholic view.  Encourage students who correct each other’s opinions kindly as regards points of faith and morals expressed in class discussion.</p>
<p>During 13 years of teaching 8th grade religion in a Catholic school found the foregoing pedagogical methods to work quite effectively.</p>
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		<title>By: Arkanabar Ilarsadin</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-44005</link>
		<dc:creator>Arkanabar Ilarsadin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-44005</guid>
		<description>Four years of Catholic school -- with nuns, yet! -- and CCD until Confirmation in my case.  And I sort of figured out, on my own, that Easter is more important than Christmas.  My parents didn&#039;t really inquire into what I knew, and I think they really should have.  Beyond that, everything I know about my Faith I pretty much taught myself (much of it from the Web), or learned from conversations with my two brothers, after I got interested in it in my adult life.

Faithful catechesis is one of our most important</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Four years of Catholic school &#8212; with nuns, yet! &#8212; and CCD until Confirmation in my case.  And I sort of figured out, on my own, that Easter is more important than Christmas.  My parents didn&#8217;t really inquire into what I knew, and I think they really should have.  Beyond that, everything I know about my Faith I pretty much taught myself (much of it from the Web), or learned from conversations with my two brothers, after I got interested in it in my adult life.</p>
<p>Faithful catechesis is one of our most important</p>
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		<title>By: jareddees</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-44004</link>
		<dc:creator>jareddees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-44004</guid>
		<description>Wow, the Catholic schools in the Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph is luck to have you at the helm.  I couldn&#039;t agree more with your assessment and challenges to Catholic schools today.  As an experienced religion teacher myself, I have seen the challenges that come with catechizing young people of all ages.  It is difficult to find the balance between teaching doctrine and giving students the opportunity to personally and emotionally connect with the Lord.  I have an advanced degree in education, but I have found that there is so little research being done on sound pedagogy when it comes to catechesis.  I would love to see more Catholic colleges and universities doing work in these areas and providing catechists with practical resources and strategies for teaching the faith.  In the meantime, we need to work together to help each become better with the help of the Holy Spirit.  

I have developed a hobby of blogging about catechesis to help connect teachers and catechists with the best resources out there.  Please join in the coversation and share your ideas:  http://thereligionteacher.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, the Catholic schools in the Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph is luck to have you at the helm.  I couldn&#8217;t agree more with your assessment and challenges to Catholic schools today.  As an experienced religion teacher myself, I have seen the challenges that come with catechizing young people of all ages.  It is difficult to find the balance between teaching doctrine and giving students the opportunity to personally and emotionally connect with the Lord.  I have an advanced degree in education, but I have found that there is so little research being done on sound pedagogy when it comes to catechesis.  I would love to see more Catholic colleges and universities doing work in these areas and providing catechists with practical resources and strategies for teaching the faith.  In the meantime, we need to work together to help each become better with the help of the Holy Spirit.  </p>
<p>I have developed a hobby of blogging about catechesis to help connect teachers and catechists with the best resources out there.  Please join in the coversation and share your ideas:  <a href="http://thereligionteacher.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://thereligionteacher.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: LarryW2LJ</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-44003</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryW2LJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-44003</guid>
		<description>Got my catechesis from the good Bernardine Sisters and my Mom and the Baltimore Catechism.  This did a world of good for me; and for the life of me, I can&#039;t understand why we&#039;re still not using it anymore.  Call me old fashioned, call me whatever - it was good and it worked.

Larry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got my catechesis from the good Bernardine Sisters and my Mom and the Baltimore Catechism.  This did a world of good for me; and for the life of me, I can&#8217;t understand why we&#8217;re still not using it anymore.  Call me old fashioned, call me whatever &#8211; it was good and it worked.</p>
<p>Larry</p>
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		<title>By: krby34</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-44002</link>
		<dc:creator>krby34</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-44002</guid>
		<description>One small correction to Christi&#039;s comment which is the core to all of this issue. In all the documents mentioned as well as many others it is stated quite clearly the PRIMARY teacher of the child is the parents. We parents are to make up what is lacking in the schools because we should be teaching it first. The Schools and Classes are resources to assist the parents in solid doctrinal formation, as a secondary support of what we lead at home.

If we sent our children to school to read and write and then change all those rules or completely disregard or never practice them at all in the house would our children be great students? No. Occasionally one or two would break out and be splendid (Hey we see that in faith formation with kids, that one kid that &quot;gets&quot; the Eucharist and wants to go to adoration for lunch once a week rather than to recess.) but in general all would struggle or lack any great skill.
 
The issue we are running into is that the parents are at a complete loss as to how to teach/support doctrine and scripture because for the last two generations schools and classes left the realm they should have been in (doctrine and scripture) to form the heart and person which is the role of the parents!!

Now these parents that only had a good heart and a desire for truth and right behavior have nothing to &quot;stick it to&quot; because they have no awareness of scripture and doctrine. This &quot;sandy soil&quot; of feelings creates relative judgments that are based on how I would feel. We ask &quot;What would Jesus do?&quot; and they respond with their best guess of what they know about Jesus which was given to them as a merciful loving person that helped everyone and was always happy. They have not had their faith formed on the &quot;solid ground&quot; that helps them to remember the hard teachings of Jesus. The statements that indeed promised damnation for some, some who even called Him by name! Nor do they remember the love He had that accepted sinners but pointed out the sin for what it was and challenged the sinner to sin no more. (Remember the women caught in adultery or the Samaritan woman at the well.)

We not only need to form the young new souls in our schools but we must also form the young souls of their parents. We must find ways to engage them in the process so they too can benefit as we return to a solid foundation. We could use Sacrament Preparation processes to provide retreats/classes for the parents to re-introduce them to the faith on a solid ground. Help to form them up to be the parents that they can be when they know really what Jesus would have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One small correction to Christi&#8217;s comment which is the core to all of this issue. In all the documents mentioned as well as many others it is stated quite clearly the PRIMARY teacher of the child is the parents. We parents are to make up what is lacking in the schools because we should be teaching it first. The Schools and Classes are resources to assist the parents in solid doctrinal formation, as a secondary support of what we lead at home.</p>
<p>If we sent our children to school to read and write and then change all those rules or completely disregard or never practice them at all in the house would our children be great students? No. Occasionally one or two would break out and be splendid (Hey we see that in faith formation with kids, that one kid that &#8220;gets&#8221; the Eucharist and wants to go to adoration for lunch once a week rather than to recess.) but in general all would struggle or lack any great skill.</p>
<p>The issue we are running into is that the parents are at a complete loss as to how to teach/support doctrine and scripture because for the last two generations schools and classes left the realm they should have been in (doctrine and scripture) to form the heart and person which is the role of the parents!!</p>
<p>Now these parents that only had a good heart and a desire for truth and right behavior have nothing to &#8220;stick it to&#8221; because they have no awareness of scripture and doctrine. This &#8220;sandy soil&#8221; of feelings creates relative judgments that are based on how I would feel. We ask &#8220;What would Jesus do?&#8221; and they respond with their best guess of what they know about Jesus which was given to them as a merciful loving person that helped everyone and was always happy. They have not had their faith formed on the &#8220;solid ground&#8221; that helps them to remember the hard teachings of Jesus. The statements that indeed promised damnation for some, some who even called Him by name! Nor do they remember the love He had that accepted sinners but pointed out the sin for what it was and challenged the sinner to sin no more. (Remember the women caught in adultery or the Samaritan woman at the well.)</p>
<p>We not only need to form the young new souls in our schools but we must also form the young souls of their parents. We must find ways to engage them in the process so they too can benefit as we return to a solid foundation. We could use Sacrament Preparation processes to provide retreats/classes for the parents to re-introduce them to the faith on a solid ground. Help to form them up to be the parents that they can be when they know really what Jesus would have done.</p>
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		<title>By: mschu001</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-44000</link>
		<dc:creator>mschu001</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-44000</guid>
		<description>I had six years of Catholic education and prior to that several years of CCD classes on Saturday mornings.  In all honesty, I learned nothing from those experiences and I only recall insipid and futile exercises.  The only teacher I had that put any interest into religion was my Bible teacher in 9th grade, Mrs. Gould, a protestant who went to the same Bible College as the infamous Jim Jones.  Everything that I know about my faith has come about from the little seed of interest that she planted and from self study that resulted from that curiosity.  Thank God for orthodox websites such as CE, great Holy Fathers like John Paul II and Benedict XVI, and apologists such as Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, CS Lewis, and Ronald Knox, and some historians like Christopher Dawson and Michael Burleigh to keep me informed and interested.  I would also like to mention my boyhood priest, the late Msg. O’Sullivan, for who liturgy and worship was something beautiful and solemn.

Unfortunately, despite many years of &quot;Catholic&quot; education no seeds were planted in my nieces.  Both have left the Faith and one is militantly anti-Catholic today.  The rest of the younger generation in my family whether here in America, in Mexico, or in Germany are my like my nieces and basically for the same reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had six years of Catholic education and prior to that several years of CCD classes on Saturday mornings.  In all honesty, I learned nothing from those experiences and I only recall insipid and futile exercises.  The only teacher I had that put any interest into religion was my Bible teacher in 9th grade, Mrs. Gould, a protestant who went to the same Bible College as the infamous Jim Jones.  Everything that I know about my faith has come about from the little seed of interest that she planted and from self study that resulted from that curiosity.  Thank God for orthodox websites such as CE, great Holy Fathers like John Paul II and Benedict XVI, and apologists such as Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, CS Lewis, and Ronald Knox, and some historians like Christopher Dawson and Michael Burleigh to keep me informed and interested.  I would also like to mention my boyhood priest, the late Msg. O’Sullivan, for who liturgy and worship was something beautiful and solemn.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, despite many years of &#8220;Catholic&#8221; education no seeds were planted in my nieces.  Both have left the Faith and one is militantly anti-Catholic today.  The rest of the younger generation in my family whether here in America, in Mexico, or in Germany are my like my nieces and basically for the same reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Christi Derr</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-43998</link>
		<dc:creator>Christi Derr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-43998</guid>
		<description>This is such an important topic!!!  Sadly, it seems your brother&#039;s experience is the norm not the exception.  A holy priest once commented to me that some Catholic schools are actually damaging a child/young adult&#039;s faith life, because the school in effect immunizes him/her to Catholicism.   The child receives just enough (and that is scant!) knowledge of the faith to THINK they know it, and are no longer interested in pursuing any further knowledge.  Because of How the faith is taught they forget that Truth is a person - and the most wonderful person they will ever know.  They are not falling in love with Jesus.  

... as Mallys wrote, we parents must make up for what is lacking - not rely on others to teach our children the love of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is such an important topic!!!  Sadly, it seems your brother&#8217;s experience is the norm not the exception.  A holy priest once commented to me that some Catholic schools are actually damaging a child/young adult&#8217;s faith life, because the school in effect immunizes him/her to Catholicism.   The child receives just enough (and that is scant!) knowledge of the faith to THINK they know it, and are no longer interested in pursuing any further knowledge.  Because of How the faith is taught they forget that Truth is a person &#8211; and the most wonderful person they will ever know.  They are not falling in love with Jesus.  </p>
<p>&#8230; as Mallys wrote, we parents must make up for what is lacking &#8211; not rely on others to teach our children the love of Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: mallys</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-43997</link>
		<dc:creator>mallys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-43997</guid>
		<description>As true as all this is for our Catholic school systems, it is increased by orders of magnitude in parish Religious Ed programs. We have barely an hour a week, are given catechetical texts designed for daily use in Catholic schools and expected to &quot;cover it all&quot; and our students come from families that range from &quot;drive-by&quot; (drop them off on Wednesdays, rarely go to Mass on Sundays) to very faithful and well formed.

In these circumstances, prayer is the only option. What man cannot do, God can accomplish (in me as much as in those I am charged with catechizing.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As true as all this is for our Catholic school systems, it is increased by orders of magnitude in parish Religious Ed programs. We have barely an hour a week, are given catechetical texts designed for daily use in Catholic schools and expected to &#8220;cover it all&#8221; and our students come from families that range from &#8220;drive-by&#8221; (drop them off on Wednesdays, rarely go to Mass on Sundays) to very faithful and well formed.</p>
<p>In these circumstances, prayer is the only option. What man cannot do, God can accomplish (in me as much as in those I am charged with catechizing.)</p>
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		<title>By: jtms</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-43996</link>
		<dc:creator>jtms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-43996</guid>
		<description>PrairieHawk; I do agree with you.  I beleive that one of the problems we face in Church society today is a fear of telling people the truth about what living an authentic Catholic life truly is all about; that it involves sacrifice and yes, pain and suffering, to say nothing about about the possibility of eternal damnation.  The key is, at least I think, to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance on how to present these truths in a way that is charitable without the force of them being lost.  I once gave a talk on the reality of Hell to a men;s group, and Praise God, the talk was well accepted.  it was firm, but charitable as well.  That is because I prayed asking the Holy Spirit for that approach before I delevered the talk.  Perhaps there has been such a turning away from these truths because for a long time before Vatican 2 they were presented in such a fire and brimstone way that people began to fear God rather than to love Him, and the approach for the last 40 years has been a backlash.  I do not mean to overgeneralize about catechesis before Vatican 2; I am merely suggesting the fire and brimstone approach was in play over consistently, and people were afraid that God was going to smite them in their sin.  I have found that the best way to tell people who have that approach to God (as I did for many years) is that God truly is a loving Father, and that Jesus came not to threaten us with Hell, but rather to save us from all it!  Of course, the best thing to do before we share the joy of our faith with anyone is to pray for the people we encounter, and then pray for ourselves that the Holy Spirit will give us the charitable love of Christs&#039; own Sacred Heart.  God Bless you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PrairieHawk; I do agree with you.  I beleive that one of the problems we face in Church society today is a fear of telling people the truth about what living an authentic Catholic life truly is all about; that it involves sacrifice and yes, pain and suffering, to say nothing about about the possibility of eternal damnation.  The key is, at least I think, to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance on how to present these truths in a way that is charitable without the force of them being lost.  I once gave a talk on the reality of Hell to a men;s group, and Praise God, the talk was well accepted.  it was firm, but charitable as well.  That is because I prayed asking the Holy Spirit for that approach before I delevered the talk.  Perhaps there has been such a turning away from these truths because for a long time before Vatican 2 they were presented in such a fire and brimstone way that people began to fear God rather than to love Him, and the approach for the last 40 years has been a backlash.  I do not mean to overgeneralize about catechesis before Vatican 2; I am merely suggesting the fire and brimstone approach was in play over consistently, and people were afraid that God was going to smite them in their sin.  I have found that the best way to tell people who have that approach to God (as I did for many years) is that God truly is a loving Father, and that Jesus came not to threaten us with Hell, but rather to save us from all it!  Of course, the best thing to do before we share the joy of our faith with anyone is to pray for the people we encounter, and then pray for ourselves that the Holy Spirit will give us the charitable love of Christs&#8217; own Sacred Heart.  God Bless you.</p>
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		<title>By: PrairieHawk</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/17/124114/comment-page-1/#comment-43995</link>
		<dc:creator>PrairieHawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=124114#comment-43995</guid>
		<description>I grew up in the 70&#039;s and 80&#039;s, and I remember little of my catechesis besides one good class on the Pentateuch, a lot of coloring, and hearing that the Sacrament of Confirmation was &quot;a rite of passage into adulthood.&quot; If it were not for the priests of the Dominican Order whom I met as a young man shortly after my reconversion, I might never have been catechized at all.

Now that I am a catechist of adults, I am aware of the weight of my responsibility to authentically transmit the Faith. People go to Hell because of bad catechesis, because the Church isn&#039;t doing her job. But I also keep in mind the words of the Prophet Daniel, &quot;Those who are wise will shine as brightly as the expanse of the heavens, and those who have instructed many in uprightness, as bright as stars for all eternity&quot; (Daniel 12:3). That is my hope for eternal life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in the 70&#8242;s and 80&#8242;s, and I remember little of my catechesis besides one good class on the Pentateuch, a lot of coloring, and hearing that the Sacrament of Confirmation was &#8220;a rite of passage into adulthood.&#8221; If it were not for the priests of the Dominican Order whom I met as a young man shortly after my reconversion, I might never have been catechized at all.</p>
<p>Now that I am a catechist of adults, I am aware of the weight of my responsibility to authentically transmit the Faith. People go to Hell because of bad catechesis, because the Church isn&#8217;t doing her job. But I also keep in mind the words of the Prophet Daniel, &#8220;Those who are wise will shine as brightly as the expanse of the heavens, and those who have instructed many in uprightness, as bright as stars for all eternity&#8221; (Daniel 12:3). That is my hope for eternal life.</p>
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