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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s Next for the Pro-Life Movement in Health Care Reform?</title>
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		<title>By: noelfitz</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43983</link>
		<dc:creator>noelfitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43983</guid>
		<description>Mary,
I enjoy our discussions.

Ms Palin is the apostate and was not elected.  Biden, Pelosi and two thirds of the Supreme Court) were not formally excommunicated by the Church (ferendae sententiae).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary,<br />
I enjoy our discussions.</p>
<p>Ms Palin is the apostate and was not elected.  Biden, Pelosi and two thirds of the Supreme Court) were not formally excommunicated by the Church (ferendae sententiae).</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Kochan</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43970</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Kochan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43970</guid>
		<description>So, let&#039;s see, Noel, according to you, a country proves it is Catholic by electing to high office excommunicants and apostates and violating foundational Catholic principles of human dignity in its legislation and jurisprudence. O-o-o-kay...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, let&#8217;s see, Noel, according to you, a country proves it is Catholic by electing to high office excommunicants and apostates and violating foundational Catholic principles of human dignity in its legislation and jurisprudence. O-o-o-kay&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Cooky642</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43967</link>
		<dc:creator>Cooky642</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43967</guid>
		<description>Dear Noel:  I love a good debate, but the posting section of CE is neither the time nor the place.

First, let me remind you of St. James&#039; very clear statement: &quot;Faith without works is dead&quot;!  Works don&#039;t &quot;save&quot; us, but neither does &quot;faith&quot; alone.  One does the works out of faith and love.  If I am your wife but refuse to wash your socks, cook your meals, or go to bed with you, what kind of wife am I?  I may be in a legal relationship with you, but I certainly don&#039;t love you.

And, lastly, may I remind you that Medjugorje is NOT in the United States?  Here, Catholics who would wait more than 10 minutes to go to Confession are all respondants on CE!  No, seriously, our practice, here, does not match Medjugorje.  That&#039;s not a valid comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Noel:  I love a good debate, but the posting section of CE is neither the time nor the place.</p>
<p>First, let me remind you of St. James&#8217; very clear statement: &#8220;Faith without works is dead&#8221;!  Works don&#8217;t &#8220;save&#8221; us, but neither does &#8220;faith&#8221; alone.  One does the works out of faith and love.  If I am your wife but refuse to wash your socks, cook your meals, or go to bed with you, what kind of wife am I?  I may be in a legal relationship with you, but I certainly don&#8217;t love you.</p>
<p>And, lastly, may I remind you that Medjugorje is NOT in the United States?  Here, Catholics who would wait more than 10 minutes to go to Confession are all respondants on CE!  No, seriously, our practice, here, does not match Medjugorje.  That&#8217;s not a valid comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: noelfitz</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43964</link>
		<dc:creator>noelfitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43964</guid>
		<description>Mary,
I have just looked at Wikipedias, not teh most reliable of sourcxes and read:

&quot;Excommunication can be either ferendae sententiae (declared as the sentence of an ecclesiastical court) or, far more commonly, latae sententiae (automatic, incurred at the moment the offensive act takes place). The excommunicant is still considered Christian and a Catholic as the character imparted by baptism is indelible. Their communion with the Church, however, is considered gravely impaired.[1]&quot;

Thus it seems that one who is excommunicated remains a Catholic. Thus Palin, Biden, Pelosi et al. remain Catholic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary,<br />
I have just looked at Wikipedias, not teh most reliable of sourcxes and read:</p>
<p>&#8220;Excommunication can be either ferendae sententiae (declared as the sentence of an ecclesiastical court) or, far more commonly, latae sententiae (automatic, incurred at the moment the offensive act takes place). The excommunicant is still considered Christian and a Catholic as the character imparted by baptism is indelible. Their communion with the Church, however, is considered gravely impaired.[1]&#8221;</p>
<p>Thus it seems that one who is excommunicated remains a Catholic. Thus Palin, Biden, Pelosi et al. remain Catholic.</p>
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		<title>By: noelfitz</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43963</link>
		<dc:creator>noelfitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43963</guid>
		<description>Mary, it is always great to hear from you, thanks. Are you saying Biden and Pelosi are not Catholics?  Also which members of the Supreme Court, baptized as Catholics,  are no longer Catholic, presuming that if one is excommunicated one is no longer a Catholic.  I am not sure what question you answered &quot;yes&quot; to.

Another question: is the  Church remiss in not informing the faithful that certain prominent Americans are no longer Catholic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary, it is always great to hear from you, thanks. Are you saying Biden and Pelosi are not Catholics?  Also which members of the Supreme Court, baptized as Catholics,  are no longer Catholic, presuming that if one is excommunicated one is no longer a Catholic.  I am not sure what question you answered &#8220;yes&#8221; to.</p>
<p>Another question: is the  Church remiss in not informing the faithful that certain prominent Americans are no longer Catholic?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Kochan</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43962</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Kochan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43962</guid>
		<description>Yes, Biden, Pelosi, and any other politician whether in the administrative or legislative branch or any Supreme Court justice or lower court justice who is Catholic and who supports abortion legislatively, judicially, or administratively (such as through regulations, proposing legislation, recruiting and nominating pro-abortion officials, etc.) is automatically excommunicated from the Catholic Church.  That is canon law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Biden, Pelosi, and any other politician whether in the administrative or legislative branch or any Supreme Court justice or lower court justice who is Catholic and who supports abortion legislatively, judicially, or administratively (such as through regulations, proposing legislation, recruiting and nominating pro-abortion officials, etc.) is automatically excommunicated from the Catholic Church.  That is canon law.</p>
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		<title>By: noelfitz</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43957</link>
		<dc:creator>noelfitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43957</guid>
		<description>WGS
Is one a Catholic by receiving the sacrament of baptism, which puts on a soul a character or spiritual mark that can never be removed or by faith and works?  It seems you favor the latter.


Cooky642,
 Are you also defining a Catholic in terms of faith and works?

Once a Catholic always a Catholic.  Ms Palin is a baptized Catholic.

Recently a friend of mine returnee for Medjugorje attended by thousands, many of whom waited hours to receive confession. Sounds impressive to me, reflecting the Catholicism of America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WGS<br />
Is one a Catholic by receiving the sacrament of baptism, which puts on a soul a character or spiritual mark that can never be removed or by faith and works?  It seems you favor the latter.</p>
<p>Cooky642,<br />
 Are you also defining a Catholic in terms of faith and works?</p>
<p>Once a Catholic always a Catholic.  Ms Palin is a baptized Catholic.</p>
<p>Recently a friend of mine returnee for Medjugorje attended by thousands, many of whom waited hours to receive confession. Sounds impressive to me, reflecting the Catholicism of America.</p>
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		<title>By: Cooky642</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43956</link>
		<dc:creator>Cooky642</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43956</guid>
		<description>Dear Noel: wgsullivan was very kind in responding to you, but I doubt that he answered your questions adequately.  Assuming that, like me, you prefer straight answers, let me take a run at your questions.

Yes, &quot;San Fran Nan&quot; is a nickname for Mrs. Pelosi (she represents the San Francisco, California area).  Yes, Mr. Biden (Vice President) and Mrs. Pelosi CLAIM to be Catholic, and no, they have not been officially excommunicated or condemned by the Church.  However, since they consistently vote for and agitate for those anti-life issues defined by the Church (i.e., abortion, human embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, euthansia and homosexual rights), one has every right to call into question their claim to be Catholic.


Mrs. Palin is does not claim to be Catholic.  She was baptized in the Church, as I understand the story, but her family left and she is actively Protestant.  Your question regarding the depth of Catholicity of Mrs. Palin vs Mrs. Pelosi makes perfect sense.  Despite the fact that Mrs. Palin doesn&#039;t claim to be Catholic, her views and votes are more in line with the Magisterium than Mrs. Pelosi&#039;s.  That, I think, is the best answer anyone can give you.

As to the Justices of the Supreme Court, I wouldn&#039;t put too much weight on their being Catholic.  They are lawyers, after all, tasked with interpreting law in the U.S.  One hopes that their decisions would conform to Catholic thinking.  And, to answer an unasked question, some of the Justices who are Catholic are &quot;more Catholic&quot; than others.

Finally, as to the U.S. being a &quot;very Catholic country&quot;.....oh, dear, how to say it kindly?  This question could take the space of all 3 articles in any issue of Catholic Exchange and still not come to a definitive answer.  So many MIS-interpretations of Vatican II have taken root, here, that one could make an argument for a divided Church: the American Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church.  We are not a &quot;Catholic country&quot; in the way Ireland was before &quot;the troubles&quot; (did I get that right?).  Which is why there is so much controversy, here.  Most of us are doing the best we can with what we&#039;ve got.  I hope that helps you understand our situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Noel: wgsullivan was very kind in responding to you, but I doubt that he answered your questions adequately.  Assuming that, like me, you prefer straight answers, let me take a run at your questions.</p>
<p>Yes, &#8220;San Fran Nan&#8221; is a nickname for Mrs. Pelosi (she represents the San Francisco, California area).  Yes, Mr. Biden (Vice President) and Mrs. Pelosi CLAIM to be Catholic, and no, they have not been officially excommunicated or condemned by the Church.  However, since they consistently vote for and agitate for those anti-life issues defined by the Church (i.e., abortion, human embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, euthansia and homosexual rights), one has every right to call into question their claim to be Catholic.</p>
<p>Mrs. Palin is does not claim to be Catholic.  She was baptized in the Church, as I understand the story, but her family left and she is actively Protestant.  Your question regarding the depth of Catholicity of Mrs. Palin vs Mrs. Pelosi makes perfect sense.  Despite the fact that Mrs. Palin doesn&#8217;t claim to be Catholic, her views and votes are more in line with the Magisterium than Mrs. Pelosi&#8217;s.  That, I think, is the best answer anyone can give you.</p>
<p>As to the Justices of the Supreme Court, I wouldn&#8217;t put too much weight on their being Catholic.  They are lawyers, after all, tasked with interpreting law in the U.S.  One hopes that their decisions would conform to Catholic thinking.  And, to answer an unasked question, some of the Justices who are Catholic are &#8220;more Catholic&#8221; than others.</p>
<p>Finally, as to the U.S. being a &#8220;very Catholic country&#8221;&#8230;..oh, dear, how to say it kindly?  This question could take the space of all 3 articles in any issue of Catholic Exchange and still not come to a definitive answer.  So many MIS-interpretations of Vatican II have taken root, here, that one could make an argument for a divided Church: the American Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church.  We are not a &#8220;Catholic country&#8221; in the way Ireland was before &#8220;the troubles&#8221; (did I get that right?).  Which is why there is so much controversy, here.  Most of us are doing the best we can with what we&#8217;ve got.  I hope that helps you understand our situation.</p>
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		<title>By: wgsullivan</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43955</link>
		<dc:creator>wgsullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 05:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43955</guid>
		<description>Noel,

The answer to your question all depends on how loosely one defines a Catholic. If one is truly a believer in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic faith, then one&#039;s actions must match their beliefs. It&#039;s logical.
Might make a tough go of it for many very public &#039;so called&#039; Catholics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel,</p>
<p>The answer to your question all depends on how loosely one defines a Catholic. If one is truly a believer in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic faith, then one&#8217;s actions must match their beliefs. It&#8217;s logical.<br />
Might make a tough go of it for many very public &#8216;so called&#8217; Catholics.</p>
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		<title>By: noelfitz</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/11/14/123977/comment-page-1/#comment-43953</link>
		<dc:creator>noelfitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=123977#comment-43953</guid>
		<description>I read here about San Fran Nan.  As an Irish person I am not sure who she is.  Is she Ms Nancy Pelosi?

I read in Wiikipedia:
&quot;Nancy Patricia D&#039;Alesandro Pelosi (born March 26, 1940) is the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives. She is a member of the Democratic Party. Before being elected Speaker in the 110th Congress, she was the House Minority Leader from 2003 to 2007, holding the post during the 108th and 109th Congresses...

 
Nancy Pelosi is the first female Speaker of the United States House of Representatives. She is also the first Italian-American and first Californian to serve as Speaker. She is the second Speaker from a state west of the Rocky Mountains, with the first being Washington&#039;s Tom Foley, who was the last Democrat to hold the post before Pelosi. As Speaker of the House, Pelosi is second in the line of presidential succession, following Vice President Joe Biden, which makes her the highest-ranking female politician in American history.[1]&quot;

I believe that both the first and second people in the line of presidential succession are Catholic.  Are  Ms Pelosi and Mr Biden really Catholics?  Have they been excommunicated or condemned by the Church? 

I also believe Ms Sarah Palin is also a Catholic?  Is Ms Pelosi more or less Catholic than Ms Palin? Does this question make sense?

I also believe that the ultimate decisions in legal matters in the US are made by the Supreme Court, of which two  thirds of its members are Catholic. Is this so? If it is true the US must be a very Catholic country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read here about San Fran Nan.  As an Irish person I am not sure who she is.  Is she Ms Nancy Pelosi?</p>
<p>I read in Wiikipedia:<br />
&#8220;Nancy Patricia D&#8217;Alesandro Pelosi (born March 26, 1940) is the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives. She is a member of the Democratic Party. Before being elected Speaker in the 110th Congress, she was the House Minority Leader from 2003 to 2007, holding the post during the 108th and 109th Congresses&#8230;</p>
<p>Nancy Pelosi is the first female Speaker of the United States House of Representatives. She is also the first Italian-American and first Californian to serve as Speaker. She is the second Speaker from a state west of the Rocky Mountains, with the first being Washington&#8217;s Tom Foley, who was the last Democrat to hold the post before Pelosi. As Speaker of the House, Pelosi is second in the line of presidential succession, following Vice President Joe Biden, which makes her the highest-ranking female politician in American history.[1]&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe that both the first and second people in the line of presidential succession are Catholic.  Are  Ms Pelosi and Mr Biden really Catholics?  Have they been excommunicated or condemned by the Church? </p>
<p>I also believe Ms Sarah Palin is also a Catholic?  Is Ms Pelosi more or less Catholic than Ms Palin? Does this question make sense?</p>
<p>I also believe that the ultimate decisions in legal matters in the US are made by the Supreme Court, of which two  thirds of its members are Catholic. Is this so? If it is true the US must be a very Catholic country.</p>
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