Comments on: Pope’s Spiritual Generosity Misunderstood

By: fractus

fractus — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:53:16 +0000

bairdm66,
Yes, conversion is necessary, but the main requirement of this conversion would be to submit to Rome. Those Anglicans who might be interested in union with Rome are already quite Orthodox in their beliefs – including belief in the True Presence. Are you aware that there are already “Anglican Use” parishes within the Roman Catholic Church – approved by the Holy Father in 1985? Go to http://www.atonementonline.com and look around a bit.
I think you misunderstand what the Holy Father is proposing – there would be no “adding Anglican practices to [the Novus Ordo] liturgy”. Anglican parishes would have their own ordinary (bishop or priest administrator) separate from the geographically based dioceses. This would be the same as military chaplains and parishes that have the “Archbishop of the Military Services” as their Ordinary (regardless of who the local bishop might be). The different liturgies would not “mix,” (although that might be a good cure for the “circus” masses you mention).
God Bless,
David

By: goral

goral — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:47:50 +0000

Them apples is as sweet as the squeezin’ down at the mill.

Actually, thank YOU Cooky for taking a couple of cheap lines and turning them
into meaningful comments. May God keep all of us pure for His purpose.

By: bairdm66

bairdm66 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:14:19 +0000

The troubling part that I have not been able to get a clear idea about, is what the Pope is saying in regards to liturgy. What does he mean when the Anglicans are accepted in full communion WITH some of their liturgical practices? Isn’t our Mass already muddled enough without adding “Anglican” practices to our liturgy? How much more will the Eucharist be reduced to only a symbol instead of Jesus Christ body, blood, soul & Divinity?

(When I speak of muddled I mean the American Catholic church “circus” masses that are very prevalent around my part of NE Ohio. They are “merging” my very conservative church with the Akron downtown liberal church who give communion to active known gay & lesbians. The Bishop wasn’t recommended from the “clustering group” to merge or close our church, but the Bishop is doing it anyways. The local priest didn’t help us fight to keep the church open-he doesn’t need to care..he still has a job).

Anyhow, I’m all for the Anglican community to CONVERT to Catholicism not just MERGE with us. When it comes to ecumunism I’m not into talking I’m into CONVERTING. Catholics have the TRUTH. We don’t have to dialogue about it.

By: Cooky642

Cooky642 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:00:01 +0000

Dear Goral: my “choice” word is “thank you”. How do you like them apples?

Seriously, if marriage is lived correctly (i.e., in the way God intended), then you’re absolutely right! Marriage is the closest vocation to celibacy. From 48 years into my marriage, I have to admit it ain’t easy! But then, God never said it would be. But, He did promise grace to get thru it….even when, due to medical reasons, it becomes literally celibate. (I always used to wonder how the Blessed Mother and Joseph did it. Now, I don’t wonder any more.) If these few (and there are few in the Latin rite) married priests can live marriage as a Sacrament, perhaps they will be the ones to turn around so many of the youngsters who are caught up in the trap of worldly values. That’s something all of us parents can pray for!

By: goral

goral — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:56:58 +0000

noelfitz, brush up on your church history and stop being peevish.
Just funnin’ with ya!
The Maronite Rite also has married priests. Marriage comes first, then the priesthood, not the other way around.

The converts, especially those who were and become clergy have been a great blessing to our Church. If we’re not going to have martyrs, then converts are the next best thing. Most of them put a lot on the line making the conversion.
Many are ostracized by their friends and family for doing so.
Our wunderbar Pope knows what he’s doing.

As for the clergy who are already married when they come in, they’ll just have to tough it out. The Church doesn’t look kindly on divorce.
Besides, outside of ordination, marriage is the closest vocation to celibacy.

Cooky may have a choice word for that last paragraph.

By: dusek04

dusek04 — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:35:27 +0000

Fifteen years ago, I converted to Catholicism from the Episcopal faith. I was a young adult and never thought I’d leave; however, at an Advent Bible study, the Episcopal bishop of my diocese said, in all seriousness, “of course, we don’t really believe in the virgin birth.” The minister and my fellow parishioners nodded their heads, “No, no, of course we don’t really believe that.” I was astonished and knew I didn’t belong there.

If this happened today, I’d stand up and ask how they can pray the Creed every Sunday if they don’t believe that Jesus was born by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary. As it was, I just left. I’ve never regretted my decision.

As a former Episcopalian, I can say that they take great pride in the democratic process within their church, in tolerance, and in acceptance. Unfortunately, it leaves them extremely vulnerable to fashionable ideas and relativism. Martin Luther was quite wrong about the Magisterium.

By: noelfitz

noelfitz — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:07:40 +0000

Cooky642 and Deacon Don,

Thank you for your posts. I essentially agree with both of you. Perhaps I sound a bit peevish and do not know much about Church history.

By: Deacon Don Bourgeois

Deacon Don Bourgeois — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:59:16 +0000

It seems obvious to me noelfitz does not know much about the Catholic Church history which has had married clergy in the Eastern Rites for a long, long time. Allowing married Anglican Priest is no different then what is allowed in the Eastern Rites of the Church. It in no way changes changes the gift of
celibacy that Latin Rite priest freely accept as part of their vocations.

By: nathan.faucher

nathan.faucher — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:38:49 +0000

All I can say is that I’m so excited for those Anglicans who wish to join with Rome. I wish them the best in their coming into communion with the church. I also hope that this union encourages the Vatican and the Orthodox faiths to earnestly continue their various dialogs in bringing all of Christendom into communion.

By: Cooky642

Cooky642 — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:36:10 +0000

Noelfitz, your comment sounds a bit peevish–just the sort of mind-set Mr. Shaw was hoping to correct. Or, perhaps, you were joking and I missed it; if so, I apologize. Personally, I’m delighted that some Anglicans who hold to the truth of their faith (not to mention, the Truth from which their truth derived) are willing and even anxious to return “Home to Rome”. God has blessed them with the grace to see what He desires for them: communion with Him! I’m so very glad that B XVI was so generous and charitable! It gives us an example to follow. And, I’m glad Mr. Shaw wrote this article: I’ve had a few problems explaining his generosity to my non-Catholic family.

(Oh, and Noelfitz, the Church has ALWAYS welcomed married clergy from other faiths to join us. I recently left a parish where we had a previously-Anglican priest who not only had a wife, but 2 sons in high school. He was a good man, and the parish was blessed to have him.)