Comments on: A Defining Moment for the Sacred Liturgy

By: jeanteresemarie

jeanteresemarie — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:27:28 +0000

Dear People of God-
I almost forgot about what St. Paul wrote in I Corinthians, Chapter 14, especially verse 19. Here goes: “But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue.”
Better yet, if we go back to verse 11, Paul tells us “If then I know not the power of voice, I shall be to whom I speak a barbarian; and he that speaks, a barbarian to me.” What good is it?
This is The Year of The Priest and I pray that The Holy Spirit works some good in all of this!
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Pax

By: jeanteresemarie

jeanteresemarie — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:09:57 +0000

Unfortunately, Bishop Trautman has no faith in the catholic schools and universities to teach young people vocabulary used in the catholic church, let alone the seminaries that are to teach and train new priests. Very sad… How could anybody squabble over nine words let alone read the classic writers of our faith? How does one read the Holy Bible, especially those genealogies in the Old Testament?
I am one educated in a catholic university of the Diocese of Erie, PA. I am very grateful for my teachers and friends let alone my education… pre- Bishop Trautman. I was taught that if there was something I did not understand, ask someone who should know! A good priest can and should catechize the people in his care! Why confuse the good and faithful people?
Maybe the good bishop needs to go back to school to learn how to bring The Word= Jesus Christ to the streets as opposed to bringing the language of the streets to Jesus Christ.
I digress…
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Pax

By: peregrinuslaetus

peregrinuslaetus — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:12:59 +0000

Nine terms not used in everyday speech: touchdown, quarterback, goalpost, roughing, wide receiver, touchback, linebacker, offensive coordinator, running back. Odd, but in spite of their “unfamiliarity” even my pre-teen sons can understand and thoroughly enjoy a football broadcast on t.v. No objective observer really believes that adult Christians are incapable of learning what “ineffable” means: for the last few decades, however, many have been blinded by an ideological drive to desacralize the liturgy and devotional life of the Church. The clear testimony of the last forty years that a banalized liturgy contributes to the erosion of the Church, faith and morality seems to have no impact on them. As someone once said, lex orandi, lex credendi (it’s okay to look it up if you have to).

By: goral

goral — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:44:39 +0000

What we need are bishops who wear sweaters and sneakers, that’s the American way.
We understand that. We respond positively to the casual mode. We’re already a ways there with deacons and alter servers sporting nikes and crumpled jeans under what used to be the cassock.
Leisurely language is the way to go, feel the warmth.

By: NovusOrdoSeclorum

NovusOrdoSeclorum — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:49:39 +0000

The sacred liturgy as commonly celebrated since Vatican II has led to confusion regarding the nature of liturgy and its purposes. The fact that there is disagreement in the Church on such an important matter tells me that the liturgy is currently in need of reform. Until the Church catechizes well regarding the liturgy, there will be division.

By: ralph

ralph — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:23:23 +0000

The Bishop is correct. Furthermore, trouble began in the church when Rome demanded that everyone be like them. While it is good to have a unified church, union is not necessarily derived from a language that is strange to those who are supposed to be using it in their celebration of the sacraments. Why is it that the church can allow a diversity of rites, admit Anglican married priests and establish an anglican rite which will not be like the “Roman Rite” and then demand that Americans use really what amounts to stupid words in the liturgy–like ineffable. Now ineffable is turly a word that is in daily use? Give me a break! We need more Bishops who realize that they also are successors to the Apostles and not regional flunkies.

By: ralph

ralph — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:18:50 +0000

When the angel Gabriel appeared to mary, He did not say: The Lord be with you and she did not respond: And with your Spirit. The angel said:

By: luke1twentyeight

luke1twentyeight — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:41:21 +0000

Wow. Are they failing to see the reason we attend Mass in the first place? The focal point is the Altar and what takes place there. Not the guitars, sound systems, or the homilies even. The focal point is the Altar. Anything done to clean up the Mass to promote a more sacred celebration is most welcome by this particular Catholic. It should be evident in the world around us that the reason the world is in such bad shape is because the True Liturgical Worship of God is in bad shape. The reverence shown towards the Holy Eucharist by not only people but in some churches the priests themselves is left to be desired.

For instance this past weekend, we had a sub priest. Our pastor was on vacation and I think the Diocese provided us with an auctioneer. It was almost like a race against the clock to git ‘r’ done. In this race against the clock the consecration of the bread was done so quickly – the bells rung thrice were only on the second ring and he already completed the raising of the Body of our Lord, knelt, and was standing again….as the second ring was occurring. Also, because I am particularly aware at the points of consecration – I noticed one more heinous act. He consecrated the bread, but not the wine. So we got the Body of Christ with a side of wine. Sickening.

My heart hurt for Christ. And how much of this lack of reverence for the most beautiful act of intimacy the world has ever known occurs everyday? Christ, being good enough to be our Sacrifice, our Food in this desert, is treated like this!?!?!?

Get it cleaned up not for my amusement…..but only for the Love of God!!!!

I wonder if this Mass was valid or not. If it was done unintentionally – which I am sure it was unintentional – what constitutes the validity of a Mass if the wine isn’t consecrated? But you know what else is bad? I am the only one I think that caught it out of the whole Church I attend. I humbly submit that to point out how aware people are of what is occurring….and I promise it isn’t to boast. Everyone I asked – didn’t even notice it.

Why Catholics oh WHY have we let this happen…to HIM? I offer that the reason we don’t win more of the clean up battles in this war that’s already been won is because of how we prepare, serve, offer ourselves, and receive Christ at Mass in the Most Holy Eucharist – which is our ONE chance at experiencing heaven on earth! Shouldn’t we be more enthusiastic about experiencing heaven than that? Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners.

Why do we even have to ask such questions in the first place!?!?!? Because Bishops like this are tip toeing around the flock – afraid to upset the sheep – they don’t want to be uncomfortable by making others uncomfortable.

The more sacred the better I say. I need Christ as my food….and I adore Christ in the Most Blessed Sacrament…and I love God so much that He would love me so much to be my Sacrifice and my Food…..I wouldn’t care if Mass took 3 hours…..and I am not ashamed to admit it.

Do away with the Novus Ordo if that’s what it takes to get people to realize this is more than feelings and emotions and comfort. This is Holy Communion which SHOULD be sacred! I am all for finding the value in the Novus Ordo and improving on it rather than the alternative….so then weak knee Bishops need to find the courage to make sacred what has been profaned all too often. Otherwise – if it can’t be done right in the Novus Ordo – then do it right in the Latin Mass. I’ve been to both…and one is amazing and the other is just OK….IF you appreciate what the Holy Mass is truly about.

God bless all us Catholics – and those priests who bring Christ to the Altar.

luke1twentyeight

By: papist

papist — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:15:41 +0000

I think Bishop Trautman is 100% INcorrect. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion if the Sacred Liturgy was translated correctly in the first place! The original translation was very poorly done and has needed revision since day one. The only reason people are calling the new translation “unnatural” is because it’s not what they learned in the first place, and therefore more difficult to grasp. If you use the “unnatural” argument then you might as well say the “Our Father” is unnatural…after all, who talks like “Our Father, who ART in heaven, HALLOWED be THY name?” The mass is a prayer, and should be said correctly.

Catholics should know many of those “9 words” that everyone is commenting on. Words that should be commonplace in Church communities have fallen into disuse. Bad thing. This corrected translation of the Sacred Liturgy is going to give the Church in America the chance to Catechize and hopefully draw many of the lukewarm Catholics into full communion with the Church. We are perfecting the prayer of the Mass by revisiting and correcting the translation of the Mass.

Everyone here knows that precision is key in the mass. For example, if the priest says the wrong words during the consecration, then the consecration is illicit (notice I said illicit, not invalid – that’s an entirely different topic). This new translation is a large step forward for the Church in the US.

By: JoeLukowski

JoeLukowski — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:05:49 +0000

If the problem is 9 words, I think that catechesis would eliminate that problem really quickly. I have been reading the pamphlets that LTP has put out about the translation and they are excellent in explaning what is going on.
Maybe the fear is that they are challenged with the catechetical process.

I, for one, have no problem saying “and with your spirit”. I find it more a spiritual wish than ” yo’ right back atcha’”.