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	<title>Comments on: Converts and Cradles</title>
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		<title>By: lelnet</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43892</link>
		<dc:creator>lelnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cradle Catholics have the same option of retreat as converts and would-be converts...apostasy. Free will is with us always, and we always have the option to not believe, to not be in communion with the Church. All humans have the same choice to make, regardless of what religious tradition (if any) they grew up in, and we retain that choice until the moment we die.

Of course, as a Catholic, I think choosing apostasy is the _wrong_ choice, as I&#039;m sure you do too. But it&#039;s no less an option for cradle Catholics than it is for converts...and also no more of one.

You&#039;ve always had the option of leaving, as is proven by the massive numbers who grew up in the Church and are no longer members, and the equally massive numbers who are members only on paper and in survey statistics. You chose, correctly, not to do so, but rather to remain faithful to God&#039;s Church even in spite of your evident resentments about some of the temporal choices made by that Church&#039;s leaders here on Earth.

I think you give yourself too little credit for that choice when you say that you didn&#039;t have the same option a convert has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cradle Catholics have the same option of retreat as converts and would-be converts&#8230;apostasy. Free will is with us always, and we always have the option to not believe, to not be in communion with the Church. All humans have the same choice to make, regardless of what religious tradition (if any) they grew up in, and we retain that choice until the moment we die.</p>
<p>Of course, as a Catholic, I think choosing apostasy is the _wrong_ choice, as I&#8217;m sure you do too. But it&#8217;s no less an option for cradle Catholics than it is for converts&#8230;and also no more of one.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve always had the option of leaving, as is proven by the massive numbers who grew up in the Church and are no longer members, and the equally massive numbers who are members only on paper and in survey statistics. You chose, correctly, not to do so, but rather to remain faithful to God&#8217;s Church even in spite of your evident resentments about some of the temporal choices made by that Church&#8217;s leaders here on Earth.</p>
<p>I think you give yourself too little credit for that choice when you say that you didn&#8217;t have the same option a convert has.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Insert &#8220;Lutherans&#8221; &#171; Balaam&#8217;s Ass</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43765</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Insert &#8220;Lutherans&#8221; &#171; Balaam&#8217;s Ass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=114756#comment-43765</guid>
		<description>[...] November 2009 by Timotheos    I think this short article applies equally well to the Lutheran [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] November 2009 by Timotheos    I think this short article applies equally well to the Lutheran [...]</p>
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		<title>By: markfour</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43437</link>
		<dc:creator>markfour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>“There is no parallel moment of crisis for cradle Catholics.”

Sorry Mark, nearly every orthodox cradle Catholic raised during the past 50 years has experienced a moment or two of crisis. If I had  grown up under bishops who weren’t feckless, NOT seen a sister who went into a convent become a rabid, feminist wiccan, NOT had confessors say the sinful wasn’t and that I really didn’t need to be there, NOT endured twenty-seven years of ambiguity surrounding a papacy the cult of converts hailed as the greatest…. if.. … if that and so much more that was wrong had really been right (as it is becoming under Benedict) …. then a cradle Catholic wouldn’t have had to endure moments of crisis.

As it is, our moments of crisis  have been far worse. The territory was uncharted. We were told that repudiating tradition was a test of our loyalty.  We have been left with no place else to go whereas you could retreat (or so you may have presumed in the early stages).


We are held accountable for our entire lives and for our Family of cradle Catholics; you can start anew and don’t have to explain the behavior of any family members inside or outside of the Church. We are the walking wounded. Many of us lack confidence. And that explains why we gravitate to celebrity converts who show more knowledge of the Faith than our priests do.  Not appreciating the &quot;family aspect&quot; also explains why sedevacantist chapels have many former Evangelicals among their members;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“There is no parallel moment of crisis for cradle Catholics.”</p>
<p>Sorry Mark, nearly every orthodox cradle Catholic raised during the past 50 years has experienced a moment or two of crisis. If I had  grown up under bishops who weren’t feckless, NOT seen a sister who went into a convent become a rabid, feminist wiccan, NOT had confessors say the sinful wasn’t and that I really didn’t need to be there, NOT endured twenty-seven years of ambiguity surrounding a papacy the cult of converts hailed as the greatest…. if.. … if that and so much more that was wrong had really been right (as it is becoming under Benedict) …. then a cradle Catholic wouldn’t have had to endure moments of crisis.</p>
<p>As it is, our moments of crisis  have been far worse. The territory was uncharted. We were told that repudiating tradition was a test of our loyalty.  We have been left with no place else to go whereas you could retreat (or so you may have presumed in the early stages).</p>
<p>We are held accountable for our entire lives and for our Family of cradle Catholics; you can start anew and don’t have to explain the behavior of any family members inside or outside of the Church. We are the walking wounded. Many of us lack confidence. And that explains why we gravitate to celebrity converts who show more knowledge of the Faith than our priests do.  Not appreciating the &#8220;family aspect&#8221; also explains why sedevacantist chapels have many former Evangelicals among their members;</p>
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		<title>By: markfour</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43417</link>
		<dc:creator>markfour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=114756#comment-43417</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is no parallel moment of crisis for cradle Catholics.&quot;


Sorry Mark,  nearly every orthodox cradle Catholic raised during the past 50 years has experienced a moment or two of crisis.   If I had grown up under bishops who weren&#039;t feckless, seen a sister who went into a convent become a rabid, feminist wiccan, had confessors say the sinful wasn&#039;t and I really didn&#039;t need to be there, endured twenty-seven years of ambiguity from a papacy the cult of converts hailed as the greatest.... if ... if that and so much more that was wrong had really been right (as it is becoming) .... then a cradle Catholic wouldn&#039;t have to endure moments of crisis.    

As it is, our moments of crisis that have been far worse.   We have been left with no place else to go whereas you could retreat (or so you may have presumed in the early stages).

We are held accountable for our entire lives; you can start anew and don&#039;t have to explain the behavior of any family members.  We are the waking wounded.   Many of us lack confidence.   And that explains why we gravitate to celebrity converts who show more knowledge of the Faith than our priests do</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is no parallel moment of crisis for cradle Catholics.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry Mark,  nearly every orthodox cradle Catholic raised during the past 50 years has experienced a moment or two of crisis.   If I had grown up under bishops who weren&#8217;t feckless, seen a sister who went into a convent become a rabid, feminist wiccan, had confessors say the sinful wasn&#8217;t and I really didn&#8217;t need to be there, endured twenty-seven years of ambiguity from a papacy the cult of converts hailed as the greatest&#8230;. if &#8230; if that and so much more that was wrong had really been right (as it is becoming) &#8230;. then a cradle Catholic wouldn&#8217;t have to endure moments of crisis.    </p>
<p>As it is, our moments of crisis that have been far worse.   We have been left with no place else to go whereas you could retreat (or so you may have presumed in the early stages).</p>
<p>We are held accountable for our entire lives; you can start anew and don&#8217;t have to explain the behavior of any family members.  We are the waking wounded.   Many of us lack confidence.   And that explains why we gravitate to celebrity converts who show more knowledge of the Faith than our priests do</p>
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		<title>By: Tarheel</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43406</link>
		<dc:creator>Tarheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=114756#comment-43406</guid>
		<description>Wonderful article.  And as a convert myself I see too, many of the things Mr. Shea mentions.  Okay I will try not to get up on my favorite &quot;soap box&quot; on this issue but, I truly feel that we all (converts and cradle) suffer from weak catechesis.  I teach CCD to 6th graders at my parish and have done so for 9 years now. And all too often after confirmation (done in the 8th grade in this diocese) you no longer see those children at Mass any more.  And unfortunately I also see some of my fellow catechists teach the sacraments and catechism almost devoid of any enthusiasm.  Our passion for the  faith and all the blessings we receive from Christ through his true church, must &quot;show through&quot; in our everyday lives and when those of us that teach, be very obvious when we teach.

Faith and religion is not a boring subject.  But it can be when we teach it or live it that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful article.  And as a convert myself I see too, many of the things Mr. Shea mentions.  Okay I will try not to get up on my favorite &#8220;soap box&#8221; on this issue but, I truly feel that we all (converts and cradle) suffer from weak catechesis.  I teach CCD to 6th graders at my parish and have done so for 9 years now. And all too often after confirmation (done in the 8th grade in this diocese) you no longer see those children at Mass any more.  And unfortunately I also see some of my fellow catechists teach the sacraments and catechism almost devoid of any enthusiasm.  Our passion for the  faith and all the blessings we receive from Christ through his true church, must &#8220;show through&#8221; in our everyday lives and when those of us that teach, be very obvious when we teach.</p>
<p>Faith and religion is not a boring subject.  But it can be when we teach it or live it that way.</p>
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		<title>By: LarryW2LJ</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43404</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryW2LJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=114756#comment-43404</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Great article!  As a cradle Catholic, I am often impressed (and sometimes even a little envious, I admit it) with the zeal for the Faith that many friends of mine who are converts have.  I wish more cradle Catholics would be so enthusiastic.

As a teen, even though my parents were very devout, I was somewhat lukewarm to the Faith, also.  I was busy with &quot;teenager things&quot; and was more worried about them; that I was about my Faith which I grew up in and was &quot;comfortable&quot; with. Sagely, my parents made sure that my sister and I kept going to weekly Mass.  It was something we did on autopilot.

Then as I became older (later teens) I would sit in the pew and something in the homily would cause me to have an &quot;Aha!&quot; moment.  Every now and then, listening to the old and familiar stories and sermons became new as I would have occasional epiphanies - &quot;Wow, this is really is relevant and true - in MY life!&quot;.  Maybe not a crisis moment; but it had the same effect on me.

I am happy to say that now, in my 50s, with a wife and two children, I am more active in my parish than ever; and my Catholicism is more important to me than ever, and becomes more so every day.  And I owe this to my parents and God, of course.  Their faithful nudging kept me going in the right direction.  The &quot;seed&quot; that was planted during my Baptism took hold quite strongly; and for that I am forever grateful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Great article!  As a cradle Catholic, I am often impressed (and sometimes even a little envious, I admit it) with the zeal for the Faith that many friends of mine who are converts have.  I wish more cradle Catholics would be so enthusiastic.</p>
<p>As a teen, even though my parents were very devout, I was somewhat lukewarm to the Faith, also.  I was busy with &#8220;teenager things&#8221; and was more worried about them; that I was about my Faith which I grew up in and was &#8220;comfortable&#8221; with. Sagely, my parents made sure that my sister and I kept going to weekly Mass.  It was something we did on autopilot.</p>
<p>Then as I became older (later teens) I would sit in the pew and something in the homily would cause me to have an &#8220;Aha!&#8221; moment.  Every now and then, listening to the old and familiar stories and sermons became new as I would have occasional epiphanies &#8211; &#8220;Wow, this is really is relevant and true &#8211; in MY life!&#8221;.  Maybe not a crisis moment; but it had the same effect on me.</p>
<p>I am happy to say that now, in my 50s, with a wife and two children, I am more active in my parish than ever; and my Catholicism is more important to me than ever, and becomes more so every day.  And I owe this to my parents and God, of course.  Their faithful nudging kept me going in the right direction.  The &#8220;seed&#8221; that was planted during my Baptism took hold quite strongly; and for that I am forever grateful.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hudzinski</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43403</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hudzinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=114756#comment-43403</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of the parable of the weeds and wheat, sometimes the weed we thought was not wheat, converts, and becomes the best of wheat. God&#039;s time is not our time, we can only give good assistance to all we meet. We can only plant the seed, God must bring it to maturity.

Every wheat field will have weeds, lets let God take care of them. We can be his eyes and ears, by praying for them, this how we are family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of the parable of the weeds and wheat, sometimes the weed we thought was not wheat, converts, and becomes the best of wheat. God&#8217;s time is not our time, we can only give good assistance to all we meet. We can only plant the seed, God must bring it to maturity.</p>
<p>Every wheat field will have weeds, lets let God take care of them. We can be his eyes and ears, by praying for them, this how we are family.</p>
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		<title>By: asquared</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/21/114756/comment-page-1/#comment-43402</link>
		<dc:creator>asquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=114756#comment-43402</guid>
		<description>There is a moment of adult assent to the Faith, during the rite of Confirmation with the profession of faith, which for most Catholics happens during the teen years, after a period of study focused on that Creed. Adult Catholics are also called to renew their baptismal promises every Easter, and when they baptize their own children. Trouble is many of them don&#039;t realize what they are saying. If all sacramental catechesis followed the RCIA models, as Church documents call for, this would change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a moment of adult assent to the Faith, during the rite of Confirmation with the profession of faith, which for most Catholics happens during the teen years, after a period of study focused on that Creed. Adult Catholics are also called to renew their baptismal promises every Easter, and when they baptize their own children. Trouble is many of them don&#8217;t realize what they are saying. If all sacramental catechesis followed the RCIA models, as Church documents call for, this would change.</p>
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