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	<title>Comments on: Moore False Teaching</title>
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		<title>By: GaryT</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/12/122628/comment-page-1/#comment-43235</link>
		<dc:creator>GaryT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve read some of the social encyclicals, but not all.  I distinctly get the impression starting with Leo XIII&#039;s encyclical that socialism is viewed as bad because:
1. It violates the commandment of not coveting your neighbor&#039;s possessions
2. It can even violate the stealing commandment when you vote to transfer wealth from one person to yourself via taxation and social programs
3. Government wealth re-distribution is NOT Christian charity (love).  Charity is a gift, not mandated taxation.  Socialism is incompatible with the &quot;logic of the gift&quot; as PBXVI calls it.

When considering capitalism, we must consider a hierarchy of values.
The law of supply and demand is a valid value.
However, it must be subservient to the law of justice.  Justice defined basically as people getting their due (CCC).  Justice must always trump capitalism.  There can be legitimate discussion on exactly what actions are just within the confines of capitalism, but I think we can all see examples that are also unjust:
- refusing to pay people what they are owed
- refusing to hire someone based on the color of their skin
- refusing to honor a contract
etc.
I would expect our laws to reflect justice and require capitalism to be subservient to justice.

Finally, as Christians, we know that the law of love must trump even justice.  Perhaps someone is only earning what they are due, but are in greater need than their income provides.  That is our opportunity to step in and feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc.  Unlike justice, love cannot be codified in our legal system, for love is a gift that must be given willingly.  It is our Christian responsibility to expect these gifts to come from ourselves, not from the government through our taxes.  Of course when we give, we can select how and where to give, rather than letting a Washington beaurocrat decide for us.  And when we give willingly, we are spiritual beneficiaries as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read some of the social encyclicals, but not all.  I distinctly get the impression starting with Leo XIII&#8217;s encyclical that socialism is viewed as bad because:<br />
1. It violates the commandment of not coveting your neighbor&#8217;s possessions<br />
2. It can even violate the stealing commandment when you vote to transfer wealth from one person to yourself via taxation and social programs<br />
3. Government wealth re-distribution is NOT Christian charity (love).  Charity is a gift, not mandated taxation.  Socialism is incompatible with the &#8220;logic of the gift&#8221; as PBXVI calls it.</p>
<p>When considering capitalism, we must consider a hierarchy of values.<br />
The law of supply and demand is a valid value.<br />
However, it must be subservient to the law of justice.  Justice defined basically as people getting their due (CCC).  Justice must always trump capitalism.  There can be legitimate discussion on exactly what actions are just within the confines of capitalism, but I think we can all see examples that are also unjust:<br />
- refusing to pay people what they are owed<br />
- refusing to hire someone based on the color of their skin<br />
- refusing to honor a contract<br />
etc.<br />
I would expect our laws to reflect justice and require capitalism to be subservient to justice.</p>
<p>Finally, as Christians, we know that the law of love must trump even justice.  Perhaps someone is only earning what they are due, but are in greater need than their income provides.  That is our opportunity to step in and feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc.  Unlike justice, love cannot be codified in our legal system, for love is a gift that must be given willingly.  It is our Christian responsibility to expect these gifts to come from ourselves, not from the government through our taxes.  Of course when we give, we can select how and where to give, rather than letting a Washington beaurocrat decide for us.  And when we give willingly, we are spiritual beneficiaries as well.</p>
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		<title>By: toolboard</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/12/122628/comment-page-1/#comment-43233</link>
		<dc:creator>toolboard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122628#comment-43233</guid>
		<description>Does Mr. Moore give away all the money from his documentaries? Does he voluntarily give say, 60-70% of his income and profits to the govt. to help pay for all their wonderful programs like abortion on demand; family planning; acorn etc.?  Isn&#039;t he a capitalist? What happens to these idiots out there in liberal land, I mean California?  Instead of criticizing everything, especially systems that have made it possible for them to be able to do it, why not make a documentary outlining a better system? Why not some solutions instead of tearing everything down with groundless complaints and criticisms?

Here&#039;s a thought: We all remember Ebenezer Scrooge&#039;s reply to the men from a local charity who came to him on Christmas Eve asking for a donation to alleviate the suffering of the poor; &quot;Don&#039;t they have workhouses for them?&quot; &quot;Isn&#039;t that what I pay taxes for?&quot;    This will be most Americans attitudes once Socialism gets a foothold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Mr. Moore give away all the money from his documentaries? Does he voluntarily give say, 60-70% of his income and profits to the govt. to help pay for all their wonderful programs like abortion on demand; family planning; acorn etc.?  Isn&#8217;t he a capitalist? What happens to these idiots out there in liberal land, I mean California?  Instead of criticizing everything, especially systems that have made it possible for them to be able to do it, why not make a documentary outlining a better system? Why not some solutions instead of tearing everything down with groundless complaints and criticisms?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a thought: We all remember Ebenezer Scrooge&#8217;s reply to the men from a local charity who came to him on Christmas Eve asking for a donation to alleviate the suffering of the poor; &#8220;Don&#8217;t they have workhouses for them?&#8221; &#8220;Isn&#8217;t that what I pay taxes for?&#8221;    This will be most Americans attitudes once Socialism gets a foothold.</p>
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		<title>By: goral</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/12/122628/comment-page-1/#comment-43230</link>
		<dc:creator>goral</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122628#comment-43230</guid>
		<description>The &quot;She&quot; in mallys&#039;s post is right; we do pay taxes and all sorts of fees so that there is a safety net for the disenfranchised. The money doesn&#039;t get to its intended destination because the socialist institutions that dispense it are lacking the faculties and moral scope to get it done. 
Our money ends up at Acorn, public education, PP, ACLU and an endless list of left-leaning leeches who know how to extort what they want.

Not an insignificant amount of this is funded by capitalists such as Gates, Trump and Buffett. They are at the forefront of spewing rhetoric such as:
The market conditions..., the market dictates..., and the law of supply and demand.....
The fact of the matter is that the market doesn&#039;t dictate for our companies to go to China, the CEO&#039;s do! 
The market doesn&#039;t require for the employees to get a sub-standard wage while the investors skim the cream and ride the crest.
Supply and demand doesn&#039;t dictate that mostly nines be used in the pricing structure. 
The market never thought of futures, greedy capitalists invented it.

Capitalism holds the upper hand because it&#039;s the rational way to do business.
Community oriented capitalism is what we used to have. Now nobody knows where their money is going and whom it&#039;s profiting.
Secular socialism is the cancer that creeps in when capitalism loses it&#039;s immunity to the evils of greed and moral relativism.

There is a reason why Jesus told the rich man what He did in yesterdays Gospel. 
The Church teaches the same lessons; use God&#039;s wealth not just temporally but invest in the prime future - everlasting return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;She&#8221; in mallys&#8217;s post is right; we do pay taxes and all sorts of fees so that there is a safety net for the disenfranchised. The money doesn&#8217;t get to its intended destination because the socialist institutions that dispense it are lacking the faculties and moral scope to get it done.<br />
Our money ends up at Acorn, public education, PP, ACLU and an endless list of left-leaning leeches who know how to extort what they want.</p>
<p>Not an insignificant amount of this is funded by capitalists such as Gates, Trump and Buffett. They are at the forefront of spewing rhetoric such as:<br />
The market conditions&#8230;, the market dictates&#8230;, and the law of supply and demand&#8230;..<br />
The fact of the matter is that the market doesn&#8217;t dictate for our companies to go to China, the CEO&#8217;s do!<br />
The market doesn&#8217;t require for the employees to get a sub-standard wage while the investors skim the cream and ride the crest.<br />
Supply and demand doesn&#8217;t dictate that mostly nines be used in the pricing structure.<br />
The market never thought of futures, greedy capitalists invented it.</p>
<p>Capitalism holds the upper hand because it&#8217;s the rational way to do business.<br />
Community oriented capitalism is what we used to have. Now nobody knows where their money is going and whom it&#8217;s profiting.<br />
Secular socialism is the cancer that creeps in when capitalism loses it&#8217;s immunity to the evils of greed and moral relativism.</p>
<p>There is a reason why Jesus told the rich man what He did in yesterdays Gospel.<br />
The Church teaches the same lessons; use God&#8217;s wealth not just temporally but invest in the prime future &#8211; everlasting return.</p>
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		<title>By: mallys</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/12/122628/comment-page-1/#comment-43225</link>
		<dc:creator>mallys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Government largesse relieves individuals of any feeling of responsibility toward the poor.  I saw a letter to the editor that was indignant about fundraising to fund a backpack project for poor children to get food for the weekend. She said that she shouldn&#039;t be bothered because that&#039;s what she paid taxes for</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Government largesse relieves individuals of any feeling of responsibility toward the poor.  I saw a letter to the editor that was indignant about fundraising to fund a backpack project for poor children to get food for the weekend. She said that she shouldn&#8217;t be bothered because that&#8217;s what she paid taxes for</p>
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		<title>By: cpageinkeller</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2009/10/12/122628/comment-page-1/#comment-43222</link>
		<dc:creator>cpageinkeller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122628#comment-43222</guid>
		<description>Thanks Fr. Tom.  Your message continues in the tradition of the writing and preaching of Pope Leo XIII:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_28121878_quod-apostolici-muneris_en.html

This &quot;amtisocialism&quot; message has been repeated by the Church consistently since 1898.  How can people, including some of our own, be so consistently deceived?  No knowledge of history?  Valuing words and theory above actions and real-world outcomes? Believing that is somehow just to rob producers to redistribute to non-producers? Forgetting that charity emanates from individuals and the Church rather than the government?  Not observing that &quot;government compassion&quot; and &quot;government charity&quot; always miscarry? Perhaps all are operative.

Government should be focused on justice (Constitutionally limited government) and individuals and the Church on compassion and charity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Fr. Tom.  Your message continues in the tradition of the writing and preaching of Pope Leo XIII:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_28121878_quod-apostolici-muneris_en.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_28121878_quod-apostolici-muneris_en.html</a></p>
<p>This &#8220;amtisocialism&#8221; message has been repeated by the Church consistently since 1898.  How can people, including some of our own, be so consistently deceived?  No knowledge of history?  Valuing words and theory above actions and real-world outcomes? Believing that is somehow just to rob producers to redistribute to non-producers? Forgetting that charity emanates from individuals and the Church rather than the government?  Not observing that &#8220;government compassion&#8221; and &#8220;government charity&#8221; always miscarry? Perhaps all are operative.</p>
<p>Government should be focused on justice (Constitutionally limited government) and individuals and the Church on compassion and charity.</p>
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