Comments on: Population Control to Combat Climate Change http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/ Catholic News, Catholic Articles, Catholic Apologetics, Catholic Content, Catholic Information Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:46:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.2 By: Mary Kochan http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42994 Mary Kochan Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:58:11 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42994 Applegrower, regarding your dead brother, no we do not know what his potential was. But God knew and knows and he went to a new world. Someday you may know him and when you do the real value of his life will enter you consciousness. You will understand that he was willed and loved and that his life, however brief intersected those of you and your siblings in ways you cannot now fathom. It may be that someday you find out that some aspects of your life that you enjoy have depended upon his prayers. I read Club of Rome's Limits to Growth years ago. The current collapse is 180 degrees from being a result of scarcity of resources. The most important thing to comprehend about "resources" is that there is no "naturally occurring" resource. Nature does not label coal as fuel or even label apples as food. It takes a human mind and ingenuity to take the raw materials of the earth and devise creative uses for them such that they suddenly become "resources." Please check out Julian Simon. http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Ultimate_Resource/ As for running out of food: Do you know what in terms of land use, the largest single irrigated crop of the United states is right now? Lawn grass. There is about three times the acreage devoted to lawns as devoted to growing corn. We just have so much slack in our ability to grow food, that it is beyond amazing. A grower such as yourself would probably recognize that if you had not absorbed a scarcity mentality. Please examine the agenda of those who want you to live in fear and desire death for others. Applegrower, regarding your dead brother, no we do not know what his potential was. But God knew and knows and he went to a new world. Someday you may know him and when you do the real value of his life will enter you consciousness. You will understand that he was willed and loved and that his life, however brief intersected those of you and your siblings in ways you cannot now fathom. It may be that someday you find out that some aspects of your life that you enjoy have depended upon his prayers.

I read Club of Rome’s Limits to Growth years ago. The current collapse is 180 degrees from being a result of scarcity of resources.

The most important thing to comprehend about “resources” is that there is no “naturally occurring” resource. Nature does not label coal as fuel or even label apples as food. It takes a human mind and ingenuity to take the raw materials of the earth and devise creative uses for them such that they suddenly become “resources.” Please check out Julian Simon. http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Ultimate_Resource/

As for running out of food: Do you know what in terms of land use, the largest single irrigated crop of the United states is right now? Lawn grass. There is about three times the acreage devoted to lawns as devoted to growing corn. We just have so much slack in our ability to grow food, that it is beyond amazing. A grower such as yourself would probably recognize that if you had not absorbed a scarcity mentality. Please examine the agenda of those who want you to live in fear and desire death for others.

]]> By: applegrower http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42990 applegrower Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:03:35 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42990 I like your colloguilsms, Mary. My biggest issue with humanity is that most humans (99.5%) tend to take themselves too seriously. Think about this, Mary. Would it have made that much difference to you and the rest of the world if you had not been born? This is not a facitious question. I was one of 11 children with parents that obviously didn't practice safe sex. One of my brothers died at birth--he would have been part of 12 children. I don't think he was missed by his older siblings and since none of his younger siblings knew anything about him except his name, I don't suppose they thought much about him either. We don't know whether he would have practiced medicine and saved 100's of lives, or whether he would have grown up to be another Hitler. If I had not been born, my wife probably would have married someone else and would probably be just as happy with her 2.5 children. Someone else would (and they are) be growing apples as I do. What I'm trying to point out is that with the horrendous number of people on earth today, we have become unsustainable and you and I are just an added burden to Nature. Now, since we are both here, we should try to make sure that the children we have borne have an opportunity to live a life that will not destroy the precious little that we have left of Nature's limited resources. So, even if we deny the fact that the climate is changing (which includes places that might be getting colder, or wetter, or drier as well as getting warmer) we cannot deny the fact that we are running out of natural resources and, unless some miracle comes along, we may be running out of food in the near future. Thanks for your reply, Mary. I had a two year long conversation via email, with a climate change denier, which I recently terminated because I concluded that we could never see eye to eye. If both you and I live another 20 or 30 years we might just see things go either way. I have two books that I would recommend you read: Susan Jacoby-- The Age of American Unreason; and Dr.'s Meadows, Rander and Meadows--Limits to Growth. I think you will see why I believe we are in real trouble. Cheers. I like your colloguilsms, Mary. My biggest issue with humanity is that most humans (99.5%) tend to take themselves too seriously. Think about this, Mary. Would it have made that much difference to you and the rest of the world if you had not been born? This is not a facitious question. I was one of 11 children with parents that obviously didn’t practice safe sex. One of my brothers died at birth–he would have been part of 12 children. I don’t think he was missed by his older siblings and since none of his younger siblings knew anything about him except his name, I don’t suppose they thought much about him either. We don’t know whether he would have practiced medicine and saved 100′s of lives, or whether he would have grown up to be another Hitler. If I had not been born, my wife probably would have married someone else and would probably be just as happy with her 2.5 children. Someone else would (and they are) be growing apples as I do. What I’m trying to point out is that with the horrendous number of people on earth today, we have become unsustainable and you and I are just an added burden to Nature. Now, since we are both here, we should try to make sure that the children we have borne have an opportunity to live a life that will not destroy the precious little that we have left of Nature’s limited resources. So, even if we deny the fact that the climate is changing (which includes places that might be getting colder, or wetter, or drier as well as getting warmer) we cannot deny the fact that we are running out of natural resources and, unless some miracle comes along, we may be running out of food in the near future.
Thanks for your reply, Mary. I had a two year long conversation via email, with a climate change denier, which I recently terminated because I concluded that we could never see eye to eye. If both you and I live another 20 or 30 years we might just see things go either way.
I have two books that I would recommend you read: Susan Jacoby– The Age of American Unreason; and Dr.’s Meadows, Rander and Meadows–Limits to Growth. I think you will see why I believe we are in real trouble.
Cheers.

]]> By: Mary Kochan http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42970 Mary Kochan Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:22:54 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42970 Applegrower, that is kind of the thing about climate. It changes. I'm not denying climate change. Now I garden also in my part of the country, and guess what? Things are getting a bit cooler around here. I don't know that Mosher denies climate change -- he seems agnostic on it to me. I do know that there a lot of very reputable scientists who deny various pieces of what has been touted as "global warming." But whether/ how the climate is changing and whether the changes are being caused by human activity versus other natural cycles/phenomena are two very different issues. And whether climate change should be used as an excuse by global elites to seek a reduction in human population is quite another issue, especially when we note that they never seem to volunteer themselves for extermination but always seem to have somebody with less power and money in mind. History has taught us to pour the entire shaker of salt on that idea. Around here, we like humans. Shoot, we even think God became a human. How about you? You like humans? Applegrower, that is kind of the thing about climate. It changes. I’m not denying climate change. Now I garden also in my part of the country, and guess what? Things are getting a bit cooler around here.

I don’t know that Mosher denies climate change — he seems agnostic on it to me. I do know that there a lot of very reputable scientists who deny various pieces of what has been touted as “global warming.” But whether/ how the climate is changing and whether the changes are being caused by human activity versus other natural cycles/phenomena are two very different issues.

And whether climate change should be used as an excuse by global elites to seek a reduction in human population is quite another issue, especially when we note that they never seem to volunteer themselves for extermination but always seem to have somebody with less power and money in mind. History has taught us to pour the entire shaker of salt on that idea.

Around here, we like humans. Shoot, we even think God became a human. How about you? You like humans?

]]> By: applegrower http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42969 applegrower Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:42:29 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42969 And I don't normally reply to comments that I make, but I must say a "Bless you" to Mary Kochan for a reply that lack the usual vitrolic that a lot of people use in responding. I have done a considerable amount of research on climate change and am familiar with all the arguments the climate change deniers use. Far too many of them know very little about the topic and are going just by hunches. I like to refer to studies done by NASA or other scientific groups, which by and large have spent a lot of time studying the topic. It is a topic much like "creationism". You can spend a great deal of time and effort in proving to this latter group that their arguments hold no water, yet their "faith" is such that you will never convince them of their error. From a personal point of view, I believe in Nature, and nature tells me that the temperatures are getting warmer. I have been growing apples now for over 40 years, and just last year planted a variety that would only grow in California. Our growing season now is of such duration that I can easily grow this variety of apples and depend on not having them hanging on the tree in mid December. Thanks to Catholic Exchange for printing my comments--at least you are willing to look at the other side of a story. And I don’t normally reply to comments that I make, but I must say a “Bless you” to Mary Kochan for a reply that lack the usual vitrolic that a lot of people use in responding. I have done a considerable amount of research on climate change and am familiar with all the arguments the climate change deniers use. Far too many of them know very little about the topic and are going just by hunches. I like to refer to studies done by NASA or other scientific groups, which by and large have spent a lot of time studying the topic. It is a topic much like “creationism”. You can spend a great deal of time and effort in proving to this latter group that their arguments hold no water, yet their “faith” is such that you will never convince them of their error. From a personal point of view, I believe in Nature, and nature tells me that the temperatures are getting warmer. I have been growing apples now for over 40 years, and just last year planted a variety that would only grow in California. Our growing season now is of such duration that I can easily grow this variety of apples and depend on not having them hanging on the tree in mid December. Thanks to Catholic Exchange for printing my comments–at least you are willing to look at the other side of a story.

]]> By: Mary Kochan http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42966 Mary Kochan Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:21:53 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42966 Appplegrower, the ice at the arctic is decreasing, but the ice at the south is increasing -- although not evenly, the western part is shrinking and the eastern part is expanding. There is no net change in the total amount of polar ice. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/goddard_polar_ice/ http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html And the melting at the top will be a good thing for sea transport -- maybe save some fossil fuel. So don't fret. When I was kid we were all going to die because there was an ice age coming. Now we are all going to die because of global warming. The only thing true about both things is that we are all going to die... eventually. And one does not have to be a religious fanatic to understand that eternity is worth preparing for. So how you coming along on that? Appplegrower, the ice at the arctic is decreasing, but the ice at the south is increasing — although not evenly, the western part is shrinking and the eastern part is expanding. There is no net change in the total amount of polar ice.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/goddard_polar_ice/

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25348657-401,00.html

And the melting at the top will be a good thing for sea transport — maybe save some fossil fuel. So don’t fret.

When I was kid we were all going to die because there was an ice age coming. Now we are all going to die because of global warming. The only thing true about both things is that we are all going to die… eventually. And one does not have to be a religious fanatic to understand that eternity is worth preparing for.

So how you coming along on that?

]]> By: applegrower http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42965 applegrower Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:29:38 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42965 Normally I wouldn’t respond to articles written by religious zealots (I was going to use the more brutal term “fanatics); however, this article was posted on my weekly Google search on Climate Change. I was appalled to read the by-line for Mr. Mosher as President of the Population Research Institute. A quick search of Wikipedia reveals that the institute is “pro-life” and doesn’t believe in “over population” as a problem. I thinks that gives most of the reason for his “rationale” in not believing in climate change. Although I am not an exponent of long range travel, I suggest the Mr. Mosher should make two trips: one up to either the Arctic or the Antarctic to see the glacial melting or another up to the various glaciers throughout the Rockies, South American Andes or the Himalayan Mountains to see the significant retreat of the glaciers. Let’s put it this way--I have far more faith in the scientists who say that there is a severe threat from Climate Change, which cannot be equated with our daily “weather” changes, than some quack who runs something as innocuous as the Population Research Institute, which is simply a useful instrument of Catholic non-logic. Normally I wouldn’t respond to articles written by religious zealots (I was going to use the more brutal term “fanatics); however, this article was posted on my weekly Google search on Climate Change. I was appalled to read the by-line for Mr. Mosher as President of the Population Research Institute. A quick search of Wikipedia reveals that the institute is “pro-life” and doesn’t believe in “over population” as a problem. I thinks that gives most of the reason for his “rationale” in not believing in climate change. Although I am not an exponent of long range travel, I suggest the Mr. Mosher should make two trips: one up to either the Arctic or the Antarctic to see the glacial melting or another up to the various glaciers throughout the Rockies, South American Andes or the Himalayan Mountains to see the significant retreat of the glaciers. Let’s put it this way–I have far more faith in the scientists who say that there is a severe threat from Climate Change, which cannot be equated with our daily “weather” changes, than some quack who runs something as innocuous as the Population Research Institute, which is simply a useful instrument of Catholic non-logic.

]]> By: daveknecht http://catholicexchange.com/2009/09/28/122189/comment-page-1/#comment-42951 daveknecht Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:31:38 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/?p=122189#comment-42951 As a physician I wonder how doctors would respond to a drug with similar statements backing it? Read the following passage carefully: The policy response to the public health implications of this medication will have to be formulated in conditions of uncertainty, which will exist about the possible benefits and side effects, as well as their nature, location, and intensity. I would hope that "mediation" would not get through the FDA As a physician I wonder how doctors would respond to a drug with similar statements backing it?

Read the following passage carefully: The policy response to the public health implications of this medication will have to be formulated in conditions of uncertainty, which will exist about the possible benefits and side effects, as well as their nature, location, and intensity.

I would hope that “mediation” would not get through the FDA

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