Comments on: Priests Should be Corrected Before it Comes to This http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/ Catholic News, Catholic Articles, Catholic Apologetics, Catholic Content, Catholic Information Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:46:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.2 By: Correct the Behavior or Change the Rules? : Catholicism http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-40122 Correct the Behavior or Change the Rules? : Catholicism Tue, 26 May 2009 01:10:21 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-40122 [...] a confessional, and worry about him not keeping secrets from his wife. In a recent post, I read, www.newcesite.com/2009/05/14/118545/ Father James Farfaglia does a great job explaining celibacy.  More people should try to look [...] [...] a confessional, and worry about him not keeping secrets from his wife. In a recent post, I read, http://www.newcesite.com/2009/05/14/118545/ Father James Farfaglia does a great job explaining celibacy.  More people should try to look [...]

]]> By: jorge http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39934 jorge Sat, 16 May 2009 03:01:24 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39934 One of the things the Church is doing in order to prevent future scandals of these and related natures, is to conduct interviews and surveys with priests that have left the ministry due to scandal or have decided to leave for other reasons. The common denominator among the interviewed was that they all, 100%, had stop praying. I will assume, by the way Fr. Alberto (not Albert) speaks and refers to the Church handles the celibacy matter and the way he talks about his own ordeal, that he has stopped praying as well. Only a person that remains in prayer, even in the midst of struggle, can somehow, through Grace, deal with the struggle in a more sincere, Christian, graceful, and descrete way. The factor that gives the prayer life of these fallen priests away is the fact that it ended up in scandal. Only through fervent, humble, constant prayer scandal can be avoided, and of course sin. One of the things the Church is doing in order to prevent future scandals of these and related natures, is to conduct interviews and surveys with priests that have left the ministry due to scandal or have decided to leave for other reasons. The common denominator among the interviewed was that they all, 100%, had stop praying.
I will assume, by the way Fr. Alberto (not Albert) speaks and refers to the Church handles the celibacy matter and the way he talks about his own ordeal, that he has stopped praying as well. Only a person that remains in prayer, even in the midst of struggle, can somehow, through Grace, deal with the struggle in a more sincere, Christian, graceful, and descrete way.
The factor that gives the prayer life of these fallen priests away is the fact that it ended up in scandal. Only through fervent, humble, constant prayer scandal can be avoided, and of course sin.

]]> By: HomeschoolNfpDad http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39914 HomeschoolNfpDad Fri, 15 May 2009 01:13:52 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39914 Mary is absolutely right about the need for a more holistic view of chastity. A married man or woman abstaining from sex for a few months has nothing on a twenty-something single lady or single gentleman whose hormones are firing, and who is constantly being told that "it's okay." Some of our young people do so well in the face of evil! Others yield to temptation and then recover themselves, with the grace offered through the Sacraments. What is most remarkable about this is that few of these young 'uns, and none of these married folks, have received the charism of celibacy -- unless there is such a thing as a temporary charism (I do not know). <em>Without</em> the charism, these folks are living chastity including (at least for a few months or several years) <em>celibate</em> chastity. And chastity is the deeper Truth. Compared to chastity, celibacy is superficial -- so much so that celibacy sounds like nonsense unless it is grounded in chastity. This is, of course, why we have crises like this. We need to teach -- all those who live out the Faith <em>need to teach</em>. The poor bishop in south Florida is in a terrible spot: somehow he must discipline a priest to whom he seems to have taught so little. I don't think it's possible. Discipline <em>requires</em> a robust teacher; indeed discipline is derived from the Latin <em>discipulus</em>, meaning student. A student without a teacher is no student, and discipline will not work. In this society, the one who is disciplined will eventually leave the relationship, unless a genuine teacher provides the discipline. That doesn't appear to be possible in this case. Too often we superficially welcome the tax collector, the Publican, and the prostitute without providing what Jesus provided to every sinner he encountered: 1) He forgave the sin. 2) He taught what was wrong, if it wasn't obvious to the sinner. 3) And finally, he taught how to live properly and demonstrated the joys of doing so. I don't know how this is even possible at this point, but Holy Mother Church (and that includes all of us at this point) must figure out a way to sit down with folks like Father Alberto. We must figure out how to direct such folks to sacramental Reconciliation if we are not priests -- or call them to Reconciliation if we are. Then we have to explain the wrong and demonstrate -- with the example of our lives -- the joys of the right. Discipline will do nothing until we get the teaching part right first. Mary is absolutely right about the need for a more holistic view of chastity. A married man or woman abstaining from sex for a few months has nothing on a twenty-something single lady or single gentleman whose hormones are firing, and who is constantly being told that “it’s okay.” Some of our young people do so well in the face of evil! Others yield to temptation and then recover themselves, with the grace offered through the Sacraments. What is most remarkable about this is that few of these young ‘uns, and none of these married folks, have received the charism of celibacy — unless there is such a thing as a temporary charism (I do not know). Without the charism, these folks are living chastity including (at least for a few months or several years) celibate chastity.

And chastity is the deeper Truth. Compared to chastity, celibacy is superficial — so much so that celibacy sounds like nonsense unless it is grounded in chastity. This is, of course, why we have crises like this. We need to teach — all those who live out the Faith need to teach. The poor bishop in south Florida is in a terrible spot: somehow he must discipline a priest to whom he seems to have taught so little. I don’t think it’s possible. Discipline requires a robust teacher; indeed discipline is derived from the Latin discipulus, meaning student. A student without a teacher is no student, and discipline will not work. In this society, the one who is disciplined will eventually leave the relationship, unless a genuine teacher provides the discipline.

That doesn’t appear to be possible in this case. Too often we superficially welcome the tax collector, the Publican, and the prostitute without providing what Jesus provided to every sinner he encountered:

1) He forgave the sin.
2) He taught what was wrong, if it wasn’t obvious to the sinner.
3) And finally, he taught how to live properly and demonstrated the joys of doing so.

I don’t know how this is even possible at this point, but Holy Mother Church (and that includes all of us at this point) must figure out a way to sit down with folks like Father Alberto. We must figure out how to direct such folks to sacramental Reconciliation if we are not priests — or call them to Reconciliation if we are. Then we have to explain the wrong and demonstrate — with the example of our lives — the joys of the right.

Discipline will do nothing until we get the teaching part right first.

]]> By: bkeebler http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39913 bkeebler Fri, 15 May 2009 01:02:01 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39913 There is a poverty of purity among many of our Shepherds (Protestant and Catholic). In saying this I risk lumping all priests and pastors into one lump which is not my intention (for many are Holy). Fr. James Farfaglia and Mary Kochan and others have voiced very well that we are a Body, the Body of Christ. We are united to each other and to the Church and to the Father and the Holy Spirit through Christ. We are not separate but united as One. We are all members of the same Body as Christ so clearly instructs us in Scripture. And so, what one part of the Body does will affect the whole, to its harm or to its help. So it is with all of us but especially with those who Christ has given to be Shepherds of the flock... to the one who many responsibilities/gifts are given so much is expected. What can I say, I am wounded; wounded by the ills of those who pierce the Church with corruption, with all sorts of impurities. But not just the Body is wounded, but Christ Himself is wounded. So we are in need of a physician, the great Physician our Lord Jesus Christ. We are wounded but not mortally, because Christ is with us. We as laity, and all those who are in authority, must bring to light those who would wound the Body (and bringing to light the Truth is not a wound in itself as some would say who want to hide in darkness). But no matter what we do as the Body we can not heal ourselves without the Head, without the Wisdom and Knowledge and Miracles of Christ. Christ has to be the center, not an after thought, but called upon as our Hope, our example, for we are so hungry for Holiness. There is a poverty of purity among many of our Shepherds (Protestant and Catholic). In saying this I risk lumping all priests and pastors into one lump which is not my intention (for many are Holy). Fr. James Farfaglia and Mary Kochan and others have voiced very well that we are a Body, the Body of Christ. We are united to each other and to the Church and to the Father and the Holy Spirit through Christ. We are not separate but united as One. We are all members of the same Body as Christ so clearly instructs us in Scripture. And so, what one part of the Body does will affect the whole, to its harm or to its help. So it is with all of us but especially with those who Christ has given to be Shepherds of the flock… to the one who many responsibilities/gifts are given so much is expected. What can I say, I am wounded; wounded by the ills of those who pierce the Church with corruption, with all sorts of impurities. But not just the Body is wounded, but Christ Himself is wounded. So we are in need of a physician, the great Physician our Lord Jesus Christ. We are wounded but not mortally, because Christ is with us. We as laity, and all those who are in authority, must bring to light those who would wound the Body (and bringing to light the Truth is not a wound in itself as some would say who want to hide in darkness). But no matter what we do as the Body we can not heal ourselves without the Head, without the Wisdom and Knowledge and Miracles of Christ. Christ has to be the center, not an after thought, but called upon as our Hope, our example, for we are so hungry for Holiness.

]]> By: gerimom http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39909 gerimom Thu, 14 May 2009 18:09:41 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39909 I am wondering too about this woman who did not respect the priesthood enough to stay away from Fr. Cutie. She is at fault as well. For them to be together for two years, she had to be a willing partner. Shame on her! I myself have struggled with infatuation for a priest, but I will not put myself or him in an occasion of sin. I am wondering too about this woman who did not respect the priesthood enough to stay away from Fr. Cutie. She is at fault as well. For them to be together for two years, she had to be a willing partner. Shame on her!
I myself have struggled with infatuation for a priest, but I will not put myself or him in an occasion of sin.

]]> By: deirdrew http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39906 deirdrew Thu, 14 May 2009 15:17:38 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39906 MKochan, I agree with what you're saying for the most part - but it's not about the priest in my opinion. It's more about the respect a girl has for herself, and the way she is being raised. Yes, she should not do that in church - but she spends such a short time in church, what predator will have his or her eyes on these young people? Young people need to be taught respect for themselves, and of course for the Church and God. But if they respect themselves, they won't dress a certain way in church, or send photos of themselves as so many are now doing. Look at this young woman who is Miss USA. A Christian? I don't want my Christians parading half naked in beauty pageants! God bless her, she needs our prayers. She is an example to others? I think Fr Cutie is an opportunist, sadly. I do not think he should remain a priest, and it should not be his decision. I am sorry to come across as judgemental, and hope I do not. The Church needs less opportunists, and more commitment to living the way Christ did. MKochan, I agree with what you’re saying for the most part – but it’s not about the priest in my opinion. It’s more about the respect a girl has for herself, and the way she is being raised. Yes, she should not do that in church – but she spends such a short time in church, what predator will have his or her eyes on these young people?

Young people need to be taught respect for themselves, and of course for the Church and God. But if they respect themselves, they won’t dress a certain way in church, or send photos of themselves as so many are now doing.

Look at this young woman who is Miss USA. A Christian? I don’t want my Christians parading half naked in beauty pageants! God bless her, she needs our prayers. She is an example to others?

I think Fr Cutie is an opportunist, sadly. I do not think he should remain a priest, and it should not be his decision. I am sorry to come across as judgemental, and hope I do not. The Church needs less opportunists, and more commitment to living the way Christ did.

]]> By: deirdrew http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39905 deirdrew Thu, 14 May 2009 15:10:04 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39905 I am shocked that this man was allowed to run around being so publicly flamboyant in the first place. Father Oprah? That's the first clue, that he's writing so much about relationships. I hate to say this in a sense, but there's a bias, on the part of the Church, that he was allowed to do this because he's 'Latin.' And it was interesting to see how he acted on the regular US channels, and how different he was on the Spanish channels. I also believe he had his collar on there. He needs to be reined in, yesterday. There's a level of maturity, seriousness and commitment that was missing with this man a long time ago. I am shocked that this man was allowed to run around being so publicly flamboyant in the first place. Father Oprah? That’s the first clue, that he’s writing so much about relationships. I hate to say this in a sense, but there’s a bias, on the part of the Church, that he was allowed to do this because he’s ‘Latin.’ And it was interesting to see how he acted on the regular US channels, and how different he was on the Spanish channels. I also believe he had his collar on there. He needs to be reined in, yesterday.

There’s a level of maturity, seriousness and commitment that was missing with this man a long time ago.

]]> By: Fr. James Farfaglia http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39903 Fr. James Farfaglia Thu, 14 May 2009 14:29:48 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39903 I am happy to see a good discussion going on. Here is a further point that I hope does not rock the boat too much, but it needs to be said. If we were to observe what Fr. Alberto has been saying over the years about celibacy and sexuality, anyone would be able to realize that Father is confused. Did anyone challenge or correct Father? I hate to bring attention to the fact that the Father Alberto situation is simply a symptom of a wider problem going on throughout the Catholic Church. For the most part, Bishops have no idea what is going on in the rectories of their dioceses. Priests have little or no accountability. If I were a bishop, I would be visiting the rectories, calling the priests, getting together with them all of the time. Do they have a prayer life? Do they have a spiritual director? Are they going on retreats? Are they fulfilling their parish duties? Are they answering their sick calls? There seems to be a dark, pervasive attitude among some bishops who seem to think the following: celibacy is impossible and it needs to go. In the meantime, if a heterosexual priest lives with or has a girlfriend on the side, that's OK as long as no one complains about it. If a homosexual priest lives with a gay man or a gay priest, or has a boyfriend on the side, that's OK too as long as no one complains about it. Only holy and zealous bishops will be able to reform the priesthood. At the same time, most lay Catholics have a very confused idea about a celibate priesthood. Most Catholics in this country think that priests should marry. Many believe that priests really aren't celibate, that they have a girlfriend or a boyfriend on the side. In other words, the mindset of most of the Church is sick when it comes to sexuality. On the one hand we have the hedonists and on the other hand we have the jansenists. We need a serious renewal based upon the teachings of John Paul II - more TOB! I am happy to see a good discussion going on. Here is a further point that I hope does not rock the boat too much, but it needs to be said. If we were to observe what Fr. Alberto has been saying over the years about celibacy and sexuality, anyone would be able to realize that Father is confused. Did anyone challenge or correct Father? I hate to bring attention to the fact that the Father Alberto situation is simply a symptom of a wider problem going on throughout the Catholic Church. For the most part, Bishops have no idea what is going on in the rectories of their dioceses. Priests have little or no accountability. If I were a bishop, I would be visiting the rectories, calling the priests, getting together with them all of the time. Do they have a prayer life? Do they have a spiritual director? Are they going on retreats? Are they fulfilling their parish duties? Are they answering their sick calls?
There seems to be a dark, pervasive attitude among some bishops who seem to think the following: celibacy is impossible and it needs to go. In the meantime, if a heterosexual priest lives with or has a girlfriend on the side, that’s OK as long as no one complains about it. If a homosexual priest lives with a gay man or a gay priest, or has a boyfriend on the side, that’s OK too as long as no one complains about it. Only holy and zealous bishops will be able to reform the priesthood.
At the same time, most lay Catholics have a very confused idea about a celibate priesthood. Most Catholics in this country think that priests should marry. Many believe that priests really aren’t celibate, that they have a girlfriend or a boyfriend on the side. In other words, the mindset of most of the Church is sick when it comes to sexuality. On the one hand we have the hedonists and on the other hand we have the jansenists. We need a serious renewal based upon the teachings of John Paul II – more TOB!

]]> By: Mary Kochan http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39901 Mary Kochan Thu, 14 May 2009 14:04:27 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39901 I see a connection between what NFPdad said to Fr. James and what I wrote in the Edge the other day about gardening and solidarity with the poor: http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/12/118497/ NFPdad is saying that there should be solidarity between the priests and faithful Catholic couples. Wouldn't this extend then to teens and college students -- and what about widows and widowers? -- all single Catholics who are trying to live in chastity. Wouldn't this include fighting for wholesomeness in entertainment media and fashions? Do we think in this kind of holistic way? Do we consider that patronizing movies with gratuitous sex scenes undermines the strength of our priests to live in celibacy. Do we consider what our daughters wear in front of priests? I am shocked to see at our Life Teen Mass some 16-year-old wearing a miniskirt standing with her back to the priest doing the reading. I've seen priests close their eyes or turn their eyes away. What are these girls and their parents thinking?! What disrespect! Our priests have been "set apart" in the way that God has always called out from among his people those who would be specially devoted to him for the service of the many. We dishonor that calling when we lazily or apathetically permit or even participate in what Father James called a hedonistic world. I see a connection between what NFPdad said to Fr. James and what I wrote in the Edge the other day about gardening and solidarity with the poor: http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/12/118497/

NFPdad is saying that there should be solidarity between the priests and faithful Catholic couples. Wouldn’t this extend then to teens and college students — and what about widows and widowers? — all single Catholics who are trying to live in chastity. Wouldn’t this include fighting for wholesomeness in entertainment media and fashions? Do we think in this kind of holistic way? Do we consider that patronizing movies with gratuitous sex scenes undermines the strength of our priests to live in celibacy. Do we consider what our daughters wear in front of priests? I am shocked to see at our Life Teen Mass some 16-year-old wearing a miniskirt standing with her back to the priest doing the reading. I’ve seen priests close their eyes or turn their eyes away. What are these girls and their parents thinking?! What disrespect! Our priests have been “set apart” in the way that God has always called out from among his people those who would be specially devoted to him for the service of the many. We dishonor that calling when we lazily or apathetically permit or even participate in what Father James called a hedonistic world.

]]> By: Terri Kimmel http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/comment-page-1/#comment-39900 Terri Kimmel Thu, 14 May 2009 14:03:51 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2009/05/14/118545/#comment-39900 I agree with HomeschoolNfpDad's point that teaching on chastity is lost in every vocation, not just the priesthood. I think it's the elephant in the room in every parish. Talking about marital chastity is even more taboo than talking about abortion because it directly effects most married couples. Pastors are afraid of 'alienating' their congregation. Married Catholics who are faithful to Church teaching and celibate priests are in the same boat. HomeschoolNfpDad is right. We can support one another. I agree with HomeschoolNfpDad’s point that teaching on chastity is lost in every vocation, not just the priesthood. I think it’s the elephant in the room in every parish. Talking about marital chastity is even more taboo than talking about abortion because it directly effects most married couples. Pastors are afraid of ‘alienating’ their congregation.

Married Catholics who are faithful to Church teaching and celibate priests are in the same boat. HomeschoolNfpDad is right. We can support one another.

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