Comments on: Holiday Hysteria http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/ Catholic News, Catholic Articles, Catholic Apologetics, Catholic Content, Catholic Information Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:46:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.2 By: SanGabriel http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35646 SanGabriel Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:03:58 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35646 Thank you Catherine. It's always helpful to hear what is going on in Italy from those who are there. I appreciate your response. My husband's family there doesn't have a clue about the Halloween we celebrate here and like you mentioned , I am sure they were at the family cemetary lighting candles and laying flowers. :-) To me it is so sad when our culture ( or that of the Brits) infiltrates a society and they think it is so wonderful. We've seen that so much with family there, calling or emailing us with their requests for " American stuff". So true about the American TV and film products. Thanks again for your response. God bless you! Thank you Catherine. It’s always helpful to hear what is going on in Italy from those who are there. I appreciate your response. My husband’s family there doesn’t have a clue about the Halloween we celebrate here and like you mentioned , I am sure they were at the family cemetary lighting candles and laying flowers. :-) To me it is so sad when our culture ( or that of the Brits) infiltrates a society and they think it is so wonderful. We’ve seen that so much with family there, calling or emailing us with their requests for ” American stuff”. So true about the American TV and film products.
Thanks again for your response.

God bless you!

]]> By: javanderhulst http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35643 javanderhulst Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:20:38 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35643 I think that the article is actually quite wrong in its analysis and history. As evidenced by the comment from the person from Italy, Halloween, as celebrated in the U.S. and Canada, does not exist in Europe, at least until very recently in a limited way. I have relatives in the Netherlands and friends in the U.K. and it is not celebrated there either. Halloween as we know it is simply NOT European and is not a "holiday" with its roots in pre-Christian Europe. All Saints and All Souls Day are certainly celebrated in Europe, along with the Vespers before hand (as with Easter and Christmas) in anticipation of those feasts. But these celebrations have never had anything to do with ghosts and goblins and darkness. The historical reality is that Halloween as it is celebrated here is an Americanism. I don't know all the origins and development of how Halloween came to be a celebration on its own as a day of ghosts, witches, devils, and horror. But in that form it is NOT European and NOT Catholic in origin, as evidenced by the fact that it has never been celebrated as such there. I believe Halloween actually can be traced to the Puritans and Protestants. They do not celebrate All Saints and All Souls. Because those Catholic feasts are so intrinsically associated with indulgences and Purgatory, they were particularly shunned by the Protestants. In fact, that is why Luther nailed up his 95 theses today, as a rejection of these feasts and what they stand for. That is why today is Reformation Day. So, without any concept of the fellowship of the Communion of Saints, the joy of indulgences, and prayer for our beloved dead, the time of year and "festival" turned into a day of death and fear. Historically, witch trials sprouted up in Germany and the English countries only after the Reformation. Why? Perhaps because the peoples of those countries no longer had the sacraments and sacramentals (think St. Benedict medals and holy water) with which to defend themselves against evil spirits. So witchcraft naturally grew up. These are the folks who came over in the Mayflower. These observations are just based on my knowledge of European history and the fact that Halloween has never been celebrated in Europe. Just some thoughts I had and wanted to share. I think that the article is actually quite wrong in its analysis and history. As evidenced by the comment from the person from Italy, Halloween, as celebrated in the U.S. and Canada, does not exist in Europe, at least until very recently in a limited way. I have relatives in the Netherlands and friends in the U.K. and it is not celebrated there either. Halloween as we know it is simply NOT European and is not a “holiday” with its roots in pre-Christian Europe. All Saints and All Souls Day are certainly celebrated in Europe, along with the Vespers before hand (as with Easter and Christmas) in anticipation of those feasts. But these celebrations have never had anything to do with ghosts and goblins and darkness. The historical reality is that Halloween as it is celebrated here is an Americanism. I don’t know all the origins and development of how Halloween came to be a celebration on its own as a day of ghosts, witches, devils, and horror. But in that form it is NOT European and NOT Catholic in origin, as evidenced by the fact that it has never been celebrated as such there.

I believe Halloween actually can be traced to the Puritans and Protestants. They do not celebrate All Saints and All Souls. Because those Catholic feasts are so intrinsically associated with indulgences and Purgatory, they were particularly shunned by the Protestants. In fact, that is why Luther nailed up his 95 theses today, as a rejection of these feasts and what they stand for. That is why today is Reformation Day. So, without any concept of the fellowship of the Communion of Saints, the joy of indulgences, and prayer for our beloved dead, the time of year and “festival” turned into a day of death and fear. Historically, witch trials sprouted up in Germany and the English countries only after the Reformation. Why? Perhaps because the peoples of those countries no longer had the sacraments and sacramentals (think St. Benedict medals and holy water) with which to defend themselves against evil spirits. So witchcraft naturally grew up. These are the folks who came over in the Mayflower.

These observations are just based on my knowledge of European history and the fact that Halloween has never been celebrated in Europe. Just some thoughts I had and wanted to share.

]]> By: Cooky642 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35641 Cooky642 Sat, 01 Nov 2008 01:57:48 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35641 While I agree with Fishman, Heidi, and Bruce Roeder, I have to say I'm amazed that no one has commented on what struck me (well, someone sort of referred to it). Our pagan ancestors were in no way and at no time "happy heathens"!!! Death was a part of their daily lives and, I believe, Halloween was sort of an attempt to "make friends" with the inevitable. Christianity brought them hope--a hope most of them would never have thought of on their own. Like the poor, beleaguered Evangelicals, I despise Halloween. I don't decorate, I don't send out cards or gifts (?), but I do hand out candy to the neighborhood kids....along with Evangelical cartoon-tracts! (Never thought of handing out Saints' cards! Neat idea!) Having been mildly involved in occultism growing up--and watching my kids, and now my grandkids going through the same curiosity--I have a deep and abiding horror of evil. (And no, I've never been attracted to Jehovah's Witnesses.) Finally, to Mary Kochan, Thanksgiving is a little different in being an historical "feast" in our own nation. With my grandchildren now being indroctinated in the current hate-America intellectualism, you bet I'm keeping Thanksgiving for what it is....and what it used to be! While I agree with Fishman, Heidi, and Bruce Roeder, I have to say I’m amazed that no one has commented on what struck me (well, someone sort of referred to it).

Our pagan ancestors were in no way and at no time “happy heathens”!!! Death was a part of their daily lives and, I believe, Halloween was sort of an attempt to “make friends” with the inevitable. Christianity brought them hope–a hope most of them would never have thought of on their own.

Like the poor, beleaguered Evangelicals, I despise Halloween. I don’t decorate, I don’t send out cards or gifts (?), but I do hand out candy to the neighborhood kids….along with Evangelical cartoon-tracts! (Never thought of handing out Saints’ cards! Neat idea!) Having been mildly involved in occultism growing up–and watching my kids, and now my grandkids going through the same curiosity–I have a deep and abiding horror of evil. (And no, I’ve never been attracted to Jehovah’s Witnesses.)

Finally, to Mary Kochan, Thanksgiving is a little different in being an historical “feast” in our own nation. With my grandchildren now being indroctinated in the current hate-America intellectualism, you bet I’m keeping Thanksgiving for what it is….and what it used to be!

]]> By: Catherine http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35637 Catherine Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:29:41 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35637 Dear SanGabriel, I am indeed in Italy. When I first came over 20 years ago there was no Halloween. But in the last 15 years, what with the flood of British/American film and TV products, Italy has assumed more and more those values and that kind of culture. About seven years ago the idea of Halloween started getting around in a vague sort of way but then suddenly, Halloween stuff appeared in the big stores--and before anybody had any idea what to do with it. Southern Italy (and I guess for present purposes I can put Abruzzo in the southern-Italian category) seems to remain fairly innoculated against these foreign incursions, and I think it may be because for them, faith, tradition and identity are all one thing; and then they are generally happy with who they are, so these foreign things don't tempt them in the same way they do Italians in the north. And that's putting things very broadly. These two feast days (All Saints/all Souls) are very important though for all Italians. Here in the little town where I live, the cemetary has been like a bee-hive of activity over this past week with family members polishing tomb-stones and making preparations for the flowers which are already filling up the cemetery (I just came from there a few hours ago and there is the most intense perfume of white lilies which really do make the place smell like heaven ), but the greater part will arrive tomorrow. And then all the votive candles which must be set out and the vases and little electric "perpetual" lamps which need cleaning and fixing. Anyway, it is a real miracle to behold afterwards--that is, the cemetery at night with thousands and thousands of red and white votive candles winking and flickering in the dark. During these two days, Italians will criss-cross the country (and continents) to go back to their native towns--and you must surely have experienced this--to pay their respects to their dead, to their family and friends. But while there is nothing particularly festive about this time (at least not in this north-eastern part of Italy), it is neither somber. Rather, it is something very intense and, I think, in a profoundly right way. (viva Abruzzo!:) Dear SanGabriel,
I am indeed in Italy. When I first came over 20 years ago there was no Halloween. But in the last 15 years, what with the flood of British/American film and TV products, Italy has assumed more and more those values and that kind of culture. About seven years ago the idea of Halloween started getting around in a vague sort of way but then suddenly, Halloween stuff appeared in the big stores–and before anybody had any idea what to do with it. Southern Italy (and I guess for present purposes I can put Abruzzo in the southern-Italian category) seems to remain fairly innoculated against these foreign incursions, and I think it may be because for them, faith, tradition and identity are all one thing; and then they are generally happy with who they are, so these foreign things don’t tempt them in the same way they do Italians in the north. And that’s putting things very broadly.
These two feast days (All Saints/all Souls) are very important though for all Italians. Here in the little town where I live, the cemetary has been like a bee-hive of activity over this past week with family members polishing tomb-stones and making preparations for the flowers which are already filling up the cemetery (I just came from there a few hours ago and there is the most intense perfume of white lilies which really do make the place smell like heaven ), but the greater part will arrive tomorrow. And then all the votive candles which must be set out and the vases and little electric “perpetual” lamps which need cleaning and fixing. Anyway, it is a real miracle to behold afterwards–that is, the cemetery at night with thousands and thousands of red and white votive candles winking and flickering in the dark. During these two days, Italians will criss-cross the country (and continents) to go back to their native towns–and you must surely have experienced this–to pay their respects to their dead, to their family and friends. But while there is nothing particularly festive about this time (at least not in this north-eastern part of Italy), it is neither somber. Rather, it is something very intense and, I think, in a profoundly right way.
(viva Abruzzo!:)

]]> By: kirbys http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35632 kirbys Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:43:06 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35632 I think it may have to do with prudent assessment of the neighborhood, etc. We've never allowed out kids to dress in evil or satanic, etc costumes--no witches, ghosts, etc. I definitely avoid shopping in stores or in areas of stores with the scary stuff. Our neighborhood is rally tame and kid-friendly, and we avoid the really scary houses. We have always attended or hosted an All-Saints party the next day or weekend. Early on with our older kids, I was more "Focus on the Family" focused rather than Catholic focused (religiously listened to the half/hour program every day!) and was more obsessed with Halloween is evil, etc. (Of course, I was nervous about "worshipping" Mary as well--yikes!) I think there is room for what parents think best for their own families--for instance, if I had a sensitive child with an overactive imagination, we might not trick or treat for a while, and stick to the saints parties. I think it may have to do with prudent assessment of the neighborhood, etc. We’ve never allowed out kids to dress in evil or satanic, etc costumes–no witches, ghosts, etc. I definitely avoid shopping in stores or in areas of stores with the scary stuff. Our neighborhood is rally tame and kid-friendly, and we avoid the really scary houses. We have always attended or hosted an All-Saints party the next day or weekend.

Early on with our older kids, I was more “Focus on the Family” focused rather than Catholic focused (religiously listened to the half/hour program every day!) and was more obsessed with Halloween is evil, etc. (Of course, I was nervous about “worshipping” Mary as well–yikes!) I think there is room for what parents think best for their own families–for instance, if I had a sensitive child with an overactive imagination, we might not trick or treat for a while, and stick to the saints parties.

]]> By: Bruce Roeder http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35631 Bruce Roeder Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:41:50 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35631 Rats. That should read "teachable" moment. Rats. That should read “teachable” moment.

]]> By: Bruce Roeder http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35630 Bruce Roeder Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:40:48 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35630 For years i have been disturbed that it is the teachers and not the children who are the engines driving the ubiquitous pumpkins, witches, black cats and skeletons in the schools the entire month of October. This year, for the first time I heard some parents complaining about how hard it was to talk their young children into going out for "trick or treat" tonight. The kids didn't even want to go. Halloween is becoming more of an excuse for adults to act like children and indulge their horror-movie and demonic likings. The parents ought to learn something from their children here. It's a teadhable moment and a great chance to start your own family tradition of doing something more reflective of the feast of all saints. For years i have been disturbed that it is the teachers and not the children who are the engines driving the ubiquitous pumpkins, witches, black cats and skeletons in the schools the entire month of October.

This year, for the first time I heard some parents complaining about how hard it was to talk their young children into going out for “trick or treat” tonight. The kids didn’t even want to go.

Halloween is becoming more of an excuse for adults to act like children and indulge their horror-movie and demonic likings.

The parents ought to learn something from their children here. It’s a teadhable moment and a great chance to start your own family tradition of doing something more reflective of the feast of all saints.

]]> By: SanGabriel http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35628 SanGabriel Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:07:35 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35628 Catherine, Are you in Italy? I'm curious because I have never known Halloween, as we celebrate it here in the USA, to be celebrated there. My husband is from the Abruzzo region and his family never even knew about Halloween until they moved here ( family who still live there, do not celebrate Halloween either). They always celebrated All Saints Day with festivities and Hallows Eve parties. I agree with many posters that Halloween has changed so much over the years. I'm grateful my children enjoy good wholesome (modest) costumes, many times dressing as saints or people they admire, and they have fun in the neighborhood or at friends' parties. Occasionally we will attend All Saints Parties when the churches in the area hold them ( which sadly isn't too often). Like Kirby, we too hand out Holy cards/Saint cards with our treats! Catherine, Are you in Italy? I’m curious because I have never known Halloween, as we celebrate it here in the USA, to be celebrated there. My husband is from the Abruzzo region and his family never even knew about Halloween until they moved here ( family who still live there, do not celebrate Halloween either). They always celebrated All Saints Day with festivities and Hallows Eve parties.

I agree with many posters that Halloween has changed so much over the years. I’m grateful my children enjoy good wholesome (modest) costumes, many times dressing as saints or people they admire, and they have fun in the neighborhood or at friends’ parties. Occasionally we will attend All Saints Parties when the churches in the area hold them ( which sadly isn’t too often).

Like Kirby, we too hand out Holy cards/Saint cards with our treats!

]]> By: gk http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35627 gk Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:06:40 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35627 It is Halloween. The devil does not own this holiday. It is a day to meet or re-meet neighbors. It is a day to laugh together before the election. It is a day to dress up and have a good time. Go to mass on All Saints day or say a rosary. There is nothing sinful about Halloween in itself. Enjoy the candy and the kids dressed in costumes. It's a blast. It is Halloween. The devil does not own this holiday. It is a day to meet or re-meet neighbors. It is a day to laugh together before the election. It is a day to dress up and have a good time. Go to mass on All Saints day or say a rosary. There is nothing sinful about Halloween in itself. Enjoy the candy and the kids dressed in costumes. It’s a blast.

]]> By: Mary Kochan http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/comment-page-1/#comment-35626 Mary Kochan Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:46:52 +0000 http://catholicexchange.com/2008/10/31/96664/#comment-35626 So what happens when Thanksgiving becomes, in the media and the schools, all about thanking the earth for the harvest and being "green"? Do we stop celebrating it too? Why do we keep letting the culture define things instead of standing firm and claiming our space. So what happens when Thanksgiving becomes, in the media and the schools, all about thanking the earth for the harvest and being “green”? Do we stop celebrating it too? Why do we keep letting the culture define things instead of standing firm and claiming our space.

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