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	<title>Comments on: Catholics Marrying Mormons</title>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-16399</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;What I was asking about is this.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;According to my parochial vicar ( a priest friend of mine).&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;there is a proper distinction to be made between the terms &lt;/font&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;valid and licit.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;In his usage at least the term valid can ONLY be applied to SACRAMENTAL marriages and the term LICIT is properly applied to non-sacramental marriages that are still marriages in the context of church law.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;That is to say a marriage can be licit ( legal by cannon law) but not valid (sacramental).&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;What I wanted to know was if anyone else had heard of that distinction?&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;The reason I asked is because the article doesn&#039;t seem to make that distinction all.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;sorry if i didn&#039;t make my question clear.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot; size=&quot;3&quot;&gt; &lt;/font&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><font size="2">What I was asking about is this.</font><font size="2">According to my parochial vicar ( a priest friend of mine).</font><font size="2">there is a proper distinction to be made between the terms </font><font size="2">valid and licit.</font><font size="2">In his usage at least the term valid can ONLY be applied to SACRAMENTAL marriages and the term LICIT is properly applied to non-sacramental marriages that are still marriages in the context of church law.</font><font size="2">That is to say a marriage can be licit ( legal by cannon law) but not valid (sacramental).</font>
<p><font size="2">What I wanted to know was if anyone else had heard of that distinction?</font></p>
<p><font size="2">The reason I asked is because the article doesn&#39;t seem to make that distinction all.</font><font size="2">sorry if i didn&#39;t make my question clear.</font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-16394</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-16394</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fishman, about the only thing here that&#039;s correct is your last sentence.  Any marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person is a non-sacramental marriage.  That doesn&#039;t mean that it&#039;s not valid.  Validity and sacramentality are two totally different concepts, that may or may not overlap.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And since you bring it up, it&#039;s pretty easy to dissolve a sacramental marriage, if it hasn&#039;t been consummated.  Happens frequently, in fact.  That&#039;s not what this article is about, though.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Since you acknowledge that you don&#039;t understand &quot;cannon&quot; law, perhaps it would be best to defer to the experts.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Clare with no i&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fishman, about the only thing here that&#39;s correct is your last sentence.  Any marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person is a non-sacramental marriage.  That doesn&#39;t mean that it&#39;s not valid.  Validity and sacramentality are two totally different concepts, that may or may not overlap.</p>
<p>And since you bring it up, it&#39;s pretty easy to dissolve a sacramental marriage, if it hasn&#39;t been consummated.  Happens frequently, in fact.  That&#39;s not what this article is about, though.</p>
<p>Since you acknowledge that you don&#39;t understand &quot;cannon&quot; law, perhaps it would be best to defer to the experts.  </p>
<p>Clare with no i</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-16228</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-16228</guid>
		<description>&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;The above article blurs and in fact makes no distinction between a sacramental marriage (aka valid marriage) and a non sacramental marriage.  &lt;/font&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;/font&gt; &lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Traditionally the indissolubility of marriage as indicated by Jesus is a attribute of a sacramental marriage.&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;/font&gt;  &lt;p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;In the writing of Paul for instance he makes reference to those who are married to unbelievers (non-Christians).  It is better they stay married, in hope of converting their spouse, but if the unbeliever dismisses them they are free to marry.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt; &lt;/font&gt; &lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;Believers are not permitted however to dismiss or be dismissed.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There is not possible to dissolve a sacramental marriage.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot; size=&quot;3&quot;&gt; &lt;/font&gt;  &lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot; size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;Someone who is not validly baptized does not have a sacramental marriage regardless of weather or not they have a licit ( legal ) marriage within cannon law.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot; size=&quot;3&quot;&gt; &lt;/font&gt;  &lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;The original question was: “&lt;em&gt;What ramifications does this have on my marriage?”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;  &lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot; size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;From the practical standpoint I’d say not much, but from a theological standpoint if there is every a reason to apply for annulment, marriage to someone who is not baptized is nearly sufficient grounds in and of itself for the declaration to be granted, because although the marriage was legally permitted it is not a sacred and indissoluble sign.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Times New Roman&quot; size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;That is my understanding of how things work in any case.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I’m by no means an expert.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style=&quot;margin: 0in 0in 0pt&quot; class=&quot;MsoNormal&quot;&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><font size="2">The above article blurs and in fact makes no distinction between a sacramental marriage (aka valid marriage) and a non sacramental marriage.  </font>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font size="2"></font> <font size="2">Traditionally the indissolubility of marriage as indicated by Jesus is a attribute of a sacramental marriage.</font>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font size="2"></font> 
<p><font size="2">In the writing of Paul for instance he makes reference to those who are married to unbelievers (non-Christians).  It is better they stay married, in hope of converting their spouse, but if the unbeliever dismisses them they are free to marry.</font></p>
<p><font size="2"> </font> <font size="2">Believers are not permitted however to dismiss or be dismissed.<span>  </span>There is not possible to dissolve a sacramental marriage.</font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font> 
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Someone who is not validly baptized does not have a sacramental marriage regardless of weather or not they have a licit ( legal ) marriage within cannon law.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font> 
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"></font><font face="Times New Roman">The original question was: “<em>What ramifications does this have on my marriage?”</em></font></p>
<p><font size="3"></font><font face="Times New Roman"><em></em></font> 
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">From the practical standpoint I’d say not much, but from a theological standpoint if there is every a reason to apply for annulment, marriage to someone who is not baptized is nearly sufficient grounds in and of itself for the declaration to be granted, because although the marriage was legally permitted it is not a sacred and indissoluble sign.</font></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">That is my understanding of how things work in any case.<span>  </span>I’m by no means an expert.</font></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal">&#160;</p>
<p>&#160;</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-15842</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-15842</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dear Fishman,&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I do not quite follow your point. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Additionally, please spell check your writing because your readers will miss your point if they can&#039;t understand what you are saying.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Fishman,</p>
<p>I do not quite follow your point. </p>
<p>Additionally, please spell check your writing because your readers will miss your point if they can&#39;t understand what you are saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-15795</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-15795</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think this article misses an important distinction in cannon vs. theology at least as far as my laymons understanding goes and was explained to me by a priest friend of mine.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are two terms of importance, one that is not used in the article at all.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;licit (legal)  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;valid (sacramental).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Someone who does cannot partake in a sacrament cannot have a valid (sacramental) marriage. That does not preclude them from being lagitimately married withing church cannon law (licit).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So assuming cannon law is followed a non-baptized person may be licitly married in the church, but an annulment usually addresses two things.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;My understanding of the importance of the differences is that the indisoluability of sacramental marriage as Jesus directs it is meant for those who are believes and cannot be expected to be binding on those who are not, as recorded in Paul letters. So in the case of a civil devorce a declaration of nullity is much more easily granted because there was never a sacramental bond and the declartion is more of a legal formality rather then an ivestigation as to weather or not the sacrament existed in the first place.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this article misses an important distinction in cannon vs. theology at least as far as my laymons understanding goes and was explained to me by a priest friend of mine.</p>
<p>There are two terms of importance, one that is not used in the article at all.  </p>
<p>licit (legal)  </p>
<p>valid (sacramental).</p>
<p>Someone who does cannot partake in a sacrament cannot have a valid (sacramental) marriage. That does not preclude them from being lagitimately married withing church cannon law (licit).</p>
<p>So assuming cannon law is followed a non-baptized person may be licitly married in the church, but an annulment usually addresses two things.</p>
<p>My understanding of the importance of the differences is that the indisoluability of sacramental marriage as Jesus directs it is meant for those who are believes and cannot be expected to be binding on those who are not, as recorded in Paul letters. So in the case of a civil devorce a declaration of nullity is much more easily granted because there was never a sacramental bond and the declartion is more of a legal formality rather then an ivestigation as to weather or not the sacrament existed in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-15785</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-15785</guid>
		<description>That is just about the most complete, concise explanation I&#039;ve come across.  Thank you so much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is just about the most complete, concise explanation I&#39;ve come across.  Thank you so much!</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://catholicexchange.com/2007/08/09/81124/comment-page-1/#comment-15743</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-15743</guid>
		<description>Another excellent article that skillfully clarifies Church teaching on marriage and annulment.&lt;br /&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another excellent article that skillfully clarifies Church teaching on marriage and annulment.</p>
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