I would love to read about what the Hahns say about annulments.  Annullments are fallible.  I believe a tribunal declared Joan of Arc a heretic. 

 An annulment decision is also never final until one of the spouses dies.  You can contract a new marriage with a decision of nullity in the first and second instance, but if new evidence is available, it can be appealed to the third instance even AFTER a new marriage is contracted in the Church.  Theoretically, the decision of nullity could be overturned meaning the parties to the new marriage should separate. 

 I did a lot of research during my separation and it seemed when I read something from someone who was very knowledgeable (for example had served on the Roman Rota and helped write the current code of Canon Law) I became more skeptical of the way decrees of nullity were adjudicated in the US.  There is a lot of information on maryadvocates.org about this.  I also read Robert Vasoli's book.  An article by Robert Vasoli is on dads.org  http://www.dads.org/article.asp?artId=64

I came very close several times to filing for a civil divorce just so I could petition for a decree of nullity.  Almost everyone told me it would be a slam dunk.  But I was not comfortable with the process.  There is a truth about my marriage, either I am married or I am not.  It seemed like the US tribunals were judging differently than the Roman Rota.  My conscience would not allow me to do it.  Thank God. 

Heidi,

I apologize for misreading what you wrote. 

For all the reasons I've already mentioned, I'm not convinced that it is impossible for a man and woman to have any kind of friendship so long as one or both are not free to marry. Church history teaches us otherwise. What I said was there may be no romantic intention (present or future) so long as one or both are not free. There is a difference. And it is this difference I believe Mary-Beth could have done a better job articulating.

Incidentally, I couldn't help but notice that Father Frank Pavone endorses Catholic Match, even though (unlike Ave Maria Singles) I have found nothing on the site to suggest that they prevent divorced-but-not-annulled people from using the service. (If anyone else finds it, I'd like to know where it is.)

Heidi Hess Saxton Editor, "Canticle" Magazine Blogroll

Thank you for your honesty, and willingness to  perform the due diligence necessary to come to your conclusion.  A conclusion that is in accord with Catholic moral teaching.

The world and church is in a state of moral crisis.  A crisis so dire that it led Scott Hahn to exclaim, "have we reached the point of no return."  MBB's article has added fuel to the fire of this crisis.    So sometimes you have to be a "flamming torch" to defend the faith, and fight fire with fire.   Scott and Kimberly Hahn have spoken eloquently on the sacrament of marriage, the fallibility of annulments, and the dangers of having opposite sex freindships while married.  I believe the title is "Three to get married".  MBB would do a great service to herself and her readers by listening to this before she writes again on this subject.

Materdequint, I did not say inappropriate friendships were a channel of grace, but that the loneliness and frustration of the single life could be a channel of grace.

Having said that, I've recently been informed of some facts that has made me change my mind about my original assessment. While Mary-Beth has done a great deal to encourage teens and adults to live chastely (including her work with "Courage"), doing anything to encourage divorced-but-not-yet-annulled adults to date (that is, form friendships with any kind of romantic intention, future or present) prior to receiving their annulment is a grave mistake.

I was wrong not to check out my facts before responding, and I apologize for any offense my original remarks caused.

I found an excellent article on "annulment myths" on the Ave Maria Singles site, here, written by :Fr. Juan-Diego Brunetta, O.P., J.C.D http://www.avemariasingles.com/amsmag/article.cfm?articleID=22  

Although he mentions nothing about "dating," he does indicate that those in the annulment process should put off any wedding plans for at least 18 months, which is generally how long the process takes. 

Heidi Hess Saxton

338 anulments granted in 1968 in the U.S.  50,000 anulments in the U.S. in  2002, even though the number of Catholic marriages have dropped by one-third.  What a joke.   Our Catholic leaders are allowing for divorce and remarriage under the phony pretext of marriage annulments.  Tradition on the sanctity of marriage has been abandoned, and many families have been destroyed.

"I think engaging in dating-type romantic affection — kissing, "making out", whatever you want to call it — is probably inappropriate for the unannulled as well. "  This quote from Bonacci is unbelievable.  "I think, is probably inappropriate".  As if there is a case where it could be appropriate.  This is adultery plain and simple, nothing to think about.  They are still married in the eyes of God, and that is all that matters!  Who allows this so called Catholic to write for this website.  Why are you using soft language on such a serious moral offense. You are causing scandal to the faithful.   And lastly, who is advertising your association with MTV.  More scandal.  As if I would want my children or anyone to turn on a channel that promotes homosexuality, fornication, abortion, and is so anti-Catholic it could only be the work of the devil himself. 

What offended me about the article was the comment that friendships between the opposite sex are "more appropriate when that couple are formally separated".  The Catholic Church does not recognize civil divorce, it is a piece of paper.  This article is giving more weight to civil divorce, that somehow it makes a friendship "more appropriate".  Why was the distinction made?  How would you feel if your husband and you separated and he then developed a close friendship with another woman?  I doubt you would view it as a vehicle of grace. 

The article is making a distinction, that somehow if you aren't sneaking around to see each other, it makes it more appropriate.  We all know that society scarcely frowns on dating between divorced people.  But as Catholics, we should frown on it.  I have heard a priest condemn dating among the divorced from the pulpit, all Catholics should, if you honestly believe in the indissolubility of marriage.  If you don't believe marriage is indissoluble, if someone is just a hop, skip and a jump away from annulment then hey, why not – it is just a joke anyway.  I believe in the indissolubility of marriage.  All marriages are presumed valid by the Church, that is the way Catholics should view marriages, the way the Church does.

Hmmm –

- Why is it that so very many of us seem to have some view that
- ‘life is too short’
when actually our view should be that
- ‘eternity is long and longer and forever’?

Remember, I love you, too

Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ,

Pristinus Sapienter

(wljewell @newcesite.com or … yahoo.com)

I agree with Ms. Bonacchi, that the Church does not address the subject of "dating" per se. I also agree that there are two very good reasons (Mary-Beth points out both) to exercise caution with regard to exercising caution and not getting too far ahead in thoughts, behaviors, or intentions: If we get ahead of the Church, we leave ourselves open to real spiritual harm, heartache being the least of it.

I was 35 when I married, and understand how lonely it can be, and how frustrating to wait. (This is true for married couples, too, who must wait for the blessings of children and may be tempted to stray away from the parameters the Church has set). That loneliness and frustration can easily become temptations to sin. But they can also be vehicles of grace when they are offered back to God with faith, hope, and love.

Heidi Hess Saxton Editor, "Canticle" Magazine Blogroll

Miss Bonacci makes a distinction that the Church does not make.  The Church allows separation in certain cases and it does nothing to the marriage bond.  I was separated for three years from my husband and this comment that it is more appropriate to have a close friendship with a member of the opposite sex as long as the "couple has formally separated" makes me angry.  I acted like I was married when I was separated and the best advice I can give anyone is to treat people who are separated no differently than any other married person.  The Church still views them as married, so you should view their marriage as the Church does. 

I believe the Rev. Kelly wrote a book on the sacrament of marriage and wrote that keeping company with someone in the hopes their marriage would be annulled in the future was sinful.  I completely agree.  Nothing good can come out of a "close friendhip" between members of the opposite sex when one is married to another, especially if there is a separation.  Give me a break and use common sense.  It is a near occassion of sin.

Just because there is no "spouse waiting at home" does not make the relationship less sinful.  The fact that there IS a spouse period does.  As Catholics, we are supposed to witness to the world that marriage is indissoluble and not act like the world.  Being separated is a time of temptation and some support from good Catholics to be faithful is what people in difficult situations need, not more temptation.